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msar-riders - Re: [MSAR] Search Missions

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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: "T'mi Finkle" <tfinkle@erols.com>
  • To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search Missions
  • Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:30:43 -0400

It is not law in this region, but AHJ's and RA's primarily only deploy
validated NGO SAR personnel here too. Spontaneous volunteers
are simply too much of a liability and lack proper training to safely perform
missions in the field. In Maryland the State Police
and the Natural Resource Police are responsible for the validation of a NGO
SAR team. MD validation SAR standards can be found at:
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/nrp/volunteer.html It should be noted that the
State of Virginia has a stricter process, to include State
specific MSAR standards.

Our team's insurance prevents us from inviting the general public from
attending training. All are welcome to apply for our team,
providing they meet our perquisites (details are posted on our website).
However, of those who make an inquiry to join, 90%
withdraw from the process before they become an operational MSAR responder.


T'mi

Ms. Tomi` Finkle, CEM, KB3MKI
Chief
TROTSAR Mounted Team
www.trotsar.org
1-888-MSAR911 (for 24/7 Emergency Dispatch only)
301-412-5249 (cell)


Mission Statement: TROTSAR is a non-profit non-government all volunteer
based, mounted search and rescue squad. The Team's primary
purpose is to assist federal, tribal, state and local government agencies by
providing certified search & rescue personnel mounted
on horseback, for lifesaving missions of people who are missing, lost,
stranded and/or the rescuing of victims in wilderness, rural,
suburban or Wide Area Search missions within the Mid-Atlantic region.


-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
sleininger@myfrontiermail.com
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:12 PM
To: Mounted search and rescue
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer

Ohio is working on a law like that. I hope they get one soon. It sure will
cut down on the mayhem.

Sherrel


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Robin" <mikerobin@colton.com>
To: "Mounted search and rescue" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Mounted
search and rescue in Illinois USA."
<msar-il@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 7:56:22 PM
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer



Oregon law vests SAR mission responsibility to the Sheriff of the county that
the mission is in. Further,NO ONE participates in a
search unless they are state certified!
This eliminates people running amuck.  Liability issues are also covered
under state law. 
 
Mike Hattan,  SAR Coordinator
Clackamas County Sheriff's Posse
(Posse is an all volunteer unit)


----- Original Message -----
From: Karen Nesbitt
To: MSAR ; Mounted search and rescue in Illinois USA.
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer


 
Were not the volunteers instructed and given assignments?  You were lucky to
have the manpower and horsepower, but if they were not
given some initial instruction at the gate which I find hard to beleive...
then yes perhaps they were acting upon impulse and
adrenaline, hard to say form the information..but rejoice that you had them.  

 
Whatever the case, if their names were received, which they should have been
at the gate, perhaps before passing judgement, take the
time to invite those people to come to formal training.  You cannot prepare
them for the past search, only guide them to a future
one.   Im guessing some might be interested and others will not be interested
at all. 
If you want people more formally trained you have to solicite to them without
turning them off. 
 
When you volunteer you are putting yourself out, your equipment, you are
giving an extra hand, you are literally taking money out of
your own pocket and time.  You may or may not know exactly what is expected..
if you dont, you should ask and then proceed.  Coming
to a search is not a ride in the park event. Common sense would tell that.   
It is with purpose and not to say you were there. 
Volunteering to help is just that, you need to ask as to what needs to be
done then act accordingly.   Where some of those horse
noses might not have been experienced, they surely could have had some
purpose.  And surely no horse should have been left idle. 
 
It works both ways as sometimes the "pros" do not know exactly what to do
first and getting organized quickly is paramount, and
often difficult at best and quickly learning who is able for what is part of
the responsibility of the leaders of the teams so if
the volunteers did not act according to how perhaps the leadership wanted..
there seems to me to be then a failure to communicate. 
Just my 2c.  What could have prevented that?  Hello, leaders.. your turn! 
You need to break the barrier of communication and get
with it too.  Even the leaders assume that anyone with a horse might have
experience or they might not.
 
The other thing is, is volunteers are reactors, they are not responders. They
do not have the same mentality as a pro, but may be
skilled none the less and you dont know unless you ask.  They do not get paid
for their work, they do not expect anything in return
not even a pat on the back.  I think you were very lucky to have that many
hands.  I would never underestimate the power of any
volunteer even if they showed up  in short shorts and riding bareback. Anyone
willing to volunteer to jump into poision ivy or maybe
a lake riding that way is either crazy or willing to go above and beyond to
save someones six.  My guess is the later.. so what
seems silly might not be. So never underestimate the power of your
voulunteers. Where paid MSAR listen to protocol, the volunteers
however skilled or unskilled are valuable people. That extra hand you have in
them just might save your six.  Its up to the team(s)
to work so as not to get in each others way and to work together.  Coming to
something where you do not know people and getting
something laid upon you that you might not know how to can get to be an
experience, but extra eyes and ears, noses and such looking
for socks in bushes is a good thing to have.  Been there and done it.
 
Getting foreign animals to team up quickly, getting the ones that might not
be compatible to ride side by side  etc quickly sorted
and positioned will be learned  only through acting to see who can ride near
each other.. while I would trust the mounts not to
kick, you never know so if yours is not wanting to ride near the others..
space it. You still have a rider up and two extra eyes and
ears etc coverign territory tha tmight not otherwise get covered so USE it. 
 
You also cannot expect these people to be trianed to your protocol if you are
the leaders. But I would question, is it far better to
have more than less?  Maturity of those riders.. would make a difference....
Obvioulsy you could weed the younger folks to other
tasks but I would not underestimate  even the skills in those riders.  Their
bones are young!
 
Question now, is this seach still a search mode or is it leaning more towards
a recovery?  Some horses are more adept to searching a
live subject vs the latter even on a volunteer basis and even the basic trail
riders horse can discern decomp.  Question is - does
the rider know it and know his mounts reaction... knowing your horse had how
it reacts to decomp is a plus especially in searches
that have lingered for days with no results.
 
Could it be you are also tagging volunteers as amatuers?  Just because they
are volunteers do not make all of them ametuers. 
Sometiems the difference between an amatuer and a pro is simply  the fact
that one is paid.  You also cannot lump 19 or whatever the
number of volunteers into the same bag when each rider is aobviously of a
different skill.
 
I think you were really lucky to have that many hands when in the past,
getting half that skilled or not was an issue!
 
If you want to convert some of those volunteers to more formal training, you
cannot turn them off or you will get no one.  If you
dont want people to volunteer, then do not make it an open call out.
 
One thing it is evident, the pros are always concerned on insurance...    the
more I read on this the more we start hearing no one
jumped in a lake to save anyone.. so folks, guess its the call of the times. 
Doing the humanitary thing either voluntary or is it
coming too a point where the hireds are not going to do the job?   Its
becoming apparent that in some cases only  the budget and
mindset will tell for sure.
 
Hope your search ends well and she is found.  In this heat you have your work
cut out and I woudl say quickly.
 
Sorry to ramble on here.. but these are the pros and cons we see and just
some points to ponder..
 
We would join this search, but do not have a mount prepared far enough along
and common sense says she does not have enough saddle
time.
 
          Karen Nesbitt - VMSAR - Iroquois County - Illinois.





 
                                           
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