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msar-riders - Re: [MSAR] Working Dogs from Horseback

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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
  • To: MSAR <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Mounted search and rescue in Illinois USA." <msar-il@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Working Dogs from Horseback
  • Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:23:13 -0700 (PDT)

RESPONDING TO:

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:17:34 -0400
From: "Irvin Lichtenstein " <ilichten1@verizon.net>
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Working Dogs from Horseback
Message-ID: <C75D8757100842C4BF85849D8F63EBB6@irvsbigbox>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

As with any other technique you have to practice it.  Many field dogs were
worked from the saddle in the past.  Primarily herding operations (sheep,
cattle) were done.  A major problem is controlling the dog.  In many areas
the dog must be under control at all times and this may mean on a leash in
the East.  The other problem is discrimination.  In many areas there will be
multiple scents for the dog to sense.  It must be trained to ignore
everybody in favor of somebody. This often requires the handler to be able
to call off the dog and restart it when a target is identified and is not
the subject.  This is an Urban-Rural kind of thing-- our searches are in
recreational areas used by hundreds of thousands of people while others work
true wilderness that may see a search as the largest group of people to use
the area in a year.

As to your horse cuing off the dog, just proves he is very smart and letting
the dog do the work.

Irv Lichtenstein
--------->>>
 
Working dogs from horseback for SAR requires a lot of patience.  Irv makes excellent points regarding being able to call the dog off and start it.
 
While your own horse might be used to working with a dog, coming to a call with a group could be a forboding experience if the dog is not used to having more than one horse present and if the other MSAR horses present are not dog orientated as well.
 
Herding dogs especailly are chase dogs.  A chase dog has a natural tendency run and to nip at the heels of livestock.  Welsh corgies, shepherds, sheepdogs, ACD's are all heel nippers and can be tenacious when working livestock if improperly trained.  Crossing them over to search work does not always work unless properly trained from the start and should the dogs natural chase and nip instinct kick in at a bad time.  Of the four breeds, the sheep dog is of less tendency to nip.  I mention these particular breeds because they seem to be the most popular when it comes to folks and horses.
 
While these dogs can be highly intelligent, it only takes one bad incident to boot the dog from a MSAR team and once a dog has decided biting is fun, you may as well shoot it.
 
I see a lot of backyarders miss handle their herding dogs and allow for their dogs to bite and snarl at the livestock they are working and a properly trained herding dog should NEVER be allowed to bite the livestock they herd anyway.    No one wants a dog of such manners on a  good search team.  Such dogs can be a menace to society as well, especially if they happen to get loose from their owners and come to other areas where livestock are.  First thing the dogs want to do is run stock and bite them.  Taking this kind of mismanaged dog and converting it to a Class A search dog would require a lot of proper re- training on the handlers part and Im not so sure the dogs or even some handlers could be converted well enough for their dogs be trusted enough once the dog has had a taste of heel. One bad slip to old habits in training and you may have a mess with your dog noless the horse it bites.  Just my opinion, having seen badly trained dogs.
 
Why anyone would allow for a dog to bite their own stock is beyond me, but a lot of bad dog handlers do.
 
Feild trialing with dogs and horses are great events to partake in.  However, I cannot think of one trial that would allow for a dog to bite or be hardmouthed birding when these dogs are properly trained, no less be allowed to attack a horse while on trial.  But that might be another area to take your dog and train it along with your horse if one is so inclined to have dogs and horses together oworking..
 
Properly training any dog or horse for that matter for just simple obedience takes time, and practice, kindness and leashes.
 
For the Illinois Animal Control act go here:
 
 
 
 
        Karen Nesbitt - Iroquois County - Illinois
 
 
 
 




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