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msar-riders - [MSAR] ELECTROLYTES both horse and human....For public safety? HUH?

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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
  • To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [MSAR] ELECTROLYTES both horse and human....For public safety? HUH?
  • Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:20:23 -0700 (PDT)

RESPONDING TO:
 
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:29:14 -0400
From: "T'mi Finkle" <tfinkle@erols.com>
Subject: [MSAR] Water and Electrolyte Balance for a MSAR Equine While
    on Task
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <8n990j$pg02jd@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

Now that summer and warmer more humid weather is approaching most regions of
North America, I am wondering what other MSAR teams have in there standards
that address or reference electrolytes or flavored water for their public
safety mounts?

The topic of electrolytes has been discussed before and there has been mixed
of feelings on the issue.? While I agree the knowledge and use of
electrolytes is essential for an endurance equine or sports horse; I am not
sure if the same can be said about the routine use of electrolytes with
public safety equines. We must also keep in mind that during days with
extreme heat and humidly an operational period will likely be reduced to 4
to 6 hours, or in some cases not deployed at all (the safety of rider and
horse always come first).

With about 95 percent of MSAR task being conducted at a walk, short
distances or some just standing during passive searching assignments, are
giving electrolytes always necessary? Heat build up from extensive muscle
movement is not the same for the MSAR as it is for endurance and sport
horses; the rate of water and electrolyte between riding disciplines greatly
varies.? Most of us know that the use of electrolytes is commonly given in
endurance horses race/sport horses in training. However, it seems that many
police mounted units and many MSAR teams mostly rely on water intake (alone)
as the means to keep a public safety equine hydrated.


T?mi
www.trotsar.org ????
----------------->>>>>>>>>>>
 
 
Im cringing because of what you said above here T'mi -  and I qoute:
 
"The topic of electrolytes has been discussed before and there has been mixed
of feelings on the issue.? While I agree the knowledge and use of
electrolytes is essential for an endurance equine or sports horse; I am not
sure if the same can be said about the routine use of electrolytes with
public safety equines."
 
EEKS!
 
I think you need to educate yourself more on the proper use of electrolytes for both your horse and for yourself as a rider.
 

For horses - Electrolytes are lost when a horse sweats. The need for an electrolyte supplement increases when at work, or when stress and heat are added to your horse’s daily routine. The more your horse sweats, the more your horse needs proper minerals.

 

It does not matter if your horse is an endurance mount or a public safety horse, all horses can be subject to electrolyte loss at some point in  their life.  The problem is more so CAN YOU RECOGNIZE IT?

 

Dehydrated horses have a reduced thirst response. They typically will not drink water containing electrolytes. You can restore the thirst response and encourage water intake by using an electrolyte  supplement but horses dont always drink electrolyte tainted water.

 

Better still use a paste.  The paste is better and easier to administer.  Putting electrolytes into a water take does not guarantee a horses intake.  You have to watch the animal if you do to make sure it drinks.  So if you walk away, what is the point, you will not know if your horse drank or spilled it.

 

Some people will administer Gatorade to their mounts.  For some it works.  For some the granular in water works, for some the paste.  You  need to use what works best by your mount and you need to know the signs.

 

Horses that are fed balanced diets and are not under work stress conditions generally do not require electrolyte supplementation. They meet their needs naturally. Sodium is the exception and all horses, regardless of working conditions, should be fed free-choice salt.

Key issue though is BALANCED DIETS.

 

Most horsemen do not know how or  do they  get their hay analyzed so therefore they do

know the TDN and therefore have no clue as to how to supplement properly.  At best they are second guessing the total nutritional value and playing mad scientist when it comes to supplementing.  For that matter they do not even know what TDN stands for.

 

Feeding electrolyte by supplements can be tricky as  with any vitamin or mineral supplement and since most people do not know how, or why or where to get a hay analysis the majority of horsemen rarely know how to feed a fully balanced diet to all their horses especially if they have more than one animal and are factory feeding.

 

Horses that are oversupplemented or undersupplemented  are in danger of problems that can include founder, dehydration, h a i r loss, itch, the runs, compaction,  loss of pigment to name a few. 

 

Personally I cringe when I see all the supplements on the shelves at feed and tack stores that folks buy and try not knowing how or why.

 

Mineral imbalances can cause a horse to be a cribbers, they may eat dirt or eat

their own manure, eat trees, wood.. .  All of which can cause other health and behaivior related issues.

 

It is very possible to mess up the electrolyte balance in any animal or a human for that matter.   

 

::::::

 

Here are a couple PEOPLE RELATED WEBSITES:

 

DO check them out.

 

Fluid and Electrolyte Balance

 

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/fluidandelectrolytebalance.html

 

Syncope

 

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5612

 

Things can get pretty complicated when you get down to it and also recognizing symptoms that might be similiar to some other issue.

 

Syncope for one is often related to fainting, dehydration, but it also can be from blood loss and more. 

 

Shortening the work day due to heat and stress can help, but that does not replace the electrolytes lost if they have been lowered already.  You need to address the problem and it is not always just the heat or the length of day.  Its DEFICIENCY or the opposite extreme.

 

Blood pressure is also affected.  And more.  Ask your vet if you are unsure, otherwise you may end up seeign a vet when you least expect it or need one, like when on a deploy.

Ask your doctor what he says about you!

 

GO HERE:   http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/blood-pressure/HI00043/rss=1

 

I am sure there are other websites and those trained in the field of EMS or EMT, RN, or doctors etc  are fully aware. 

 

Summer time is the time of year a lot of people seem to do STUPID.  Stupid includes not watering horses, not monitoring water intake, not watching for the signs and stupid inlcudes more.  Summertime is prime time for kids taking a strayed hike, parents locking pets AND KIDS and elderly staying in cars or trailers and the list goes on.  Weekend warrior riders are notorious for gettign into problems with their horses.. hmm , letsee, lets through tying up into that group.

 

People think a five gallon bucket is adequate to water 4 or 5 horses all day long.  You best assess your water and mineral adequacy when you have them at pasture.  A full size horse requires 15-20 gallons a water per day all year.

 

We see horses do stupid all the time and we see their owners do equally stupid as well.

Weather seems to make a lot of people who should not own animals get down right lazy when it comes to adequate care.  They cant seem to recognize for themselves their own problems or deficiencys for that matter as they lapse themselves into denial or they

lack education.

 

Electrolyes and proper vitamins are not a summertime  issue.  Its a daily thing all year long.  Its something to get hyped about and to get in the know.

        Karen
 
 
 


--- On Sat, 4/17/10, msar-riders-request@lists.ibiblio.org <msar-riders-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

From: msar-riders-request@lists.ibiblio.org <msar-riders-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: MSAR-Riders Digest, Vol 86, Issue 10
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Saturday, April 17, 2010, 12:20 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Water and Electrolyte Balance for a MSAR Equine While on Task
      (T'mi Finkle)
   2. MSAR Night Operations Training Invitation (T'mi Finkle)
   3. Re: Water and Electrolyte Balance for a MSAR Equine While on
      Task (Irvin Lichtenstein )


----------------------------------------------------------------------






------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:52:56 -0400
From: "T'mi Finkle" <tfinkle@erols.com>
Subject: [MSAR] MSAR Night Operations Training Invitation
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <8n990j$pg08d3@smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The TROTSAR Mounted Team will be conducting MSAR training on May 8th and 9th
at Cedarville State Forest (CSF) Maryland.  On 8 May 2010, a nighttime hasty
search will begin at 2000 hours on 17 miles of CSF trails.  CSF is a small
area that is only 3510 acres is size, so we expect this to be an easily
controlled exercise.  The ICP, (basic) first aid station and MSAR Camp for
this event will be in the Equestrian Camping area.  Water and bathrooms are
on site but the camp sites have no facilities and you must bring your own
picket line or portable corral.  MSAR Hasty teams will consist of 3 horse
and riders.  Any field team on task that happens to get lost will be
required to stay the night in place. A second (daytime) Hasty Search will be
conduct at 1030 hours on Sunday morning (if anyone gets lost we will find
you during that exercise). 



If any validated MSAR teams would like to send their team members to attend
please contact me directly. Negative Coggins and a copy of your team's
insurance policy must be presented in order to attend this event. Additional
details will be provided to those who RSVP as attending.  Participants must
be in ride with normal MSAR turnout gear, VHF radio (Freq 155.160) and must
wear an approved riding helmet.  A campsite fee of $20 dollars per night is
required, payable to the Maryland Park Service (I can make your reservation
in your behalf). There is no other cost for attendees.  You will need to
provide your own food and water for yourself and mount. 



Sorry, this event is not open to individuals who are not affiliated with a
validated (local or State) MSAR Team. Please RSVP early if you plan to
attend only 8 non-TROTSAR slots are available.   Information and maps about
CSF can be found online at
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/publiclands/southern/cedarville.asp 



Information about Maryland NGO Search Team Standards and SAR equipment list
can be found at http://www.dnr.state.md.us/nrp/volunteer.html  (click on SAR
Team Standards)



T'mi

www.trotsar.org <http://www.trotsar.org/





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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:12:16 -0400
From: "Irvin Lichtenstein " <ilichten1@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Water and Electrolyte Balance for a MSAR Equine
    While on Task
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <0L11002D60WNEIV0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net" ymailto="mailto:0L11002D60WNEIV0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net">0L11002D60WNEIV0@vms173009.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

We have relied on the findings of the vets at the Atlanta Summer Olympics
and their continuing work. Several articles have published over the years
starting with this initial research into heat and performance. 

There are two majors areas to monitor.  Each horse has a critical
environmental number which is the simple addition of the temperature in
degrees F and the relative humidity.  The second is recovery time for pulse,
respiration, and skin pinch.

Most horses studied were 3 day eventers in excellent condition.  The
critical number was around 150 in almost all cases, with some higher.
As would be expected higher humidity inhibits cooling and was a major
factor.  Another measure with high correlation to performance was skin
temperature measured in the saddle pad covered area of the back where 107 F
was the significant number in most cases.

Recovery time is affected by condition and should be between 10 and 20
minutes in most cases.  Longer indicates poor condition for the
circumstances.  Horses that are not recovering normally should have their
internal temperature checked for normal range. A deviation either way of
several degrees F is significant and should be discussed with the on scene
vet.

In most cases prevention is relatively easy. Shade, free access to water,
salt blocks, and feed will keep a mount working.  In some areas the heat
index is used to determine if a horse can work.  Most city carriage rules
include a heat clause to shorten the work day or eliminate it entirely.

Lastly, watch your mount.  Most horses will work till they drop to please
you.  If your mount seems lethargic, stumbles more than usual, is not as
responsive, it is time to go back to camp and cool down.  Try to avoid
really cold water because the horse won't drink it any more than you would.
Showers, misting, or other water applications will only work if the humidity
is low enough for the water to evaporate.

Also, where you and your horse live is important.  A horse used to 100 F and
no humidity will work well in those conditions but suffer greatly in high
humidity at any temperature.

Lastly, make sure your horse will drink the water.  Some horses will not
drink on the road except from their own barn water source.  Carrying water
in tanks or drums from home may be necessary.  Using 15 gallon plastic drums
with spigots may be required.  These will weigh about 120 pounds each
filled. 

Irv Lichtenstein

-----Original Message-----
From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T'mi Finkle
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:29 AM
To: 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: [MSAR] Water and Electrolyte Balance for a MSAR Equine While on



------------------------------

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