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market-farming - Re: [Market-farming] When to seed after liming

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  • From: "William H Shoemaker" <wshoemak AT illinois.edu>
  • To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] When to seed after liming
  • Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 07:25:40 -0500

You’re right, standard practice in one area may not be in another. Out here on the tallgrass prairie our soils experience downward drift in pH, often because of the use of nitrogen fertilizers like anhydrous ammonia and urea. But they tend to be low anyway and every county has several limestone quarries. The pH of a soil is its most critical characteristic because pH regulates nutrient availability. So lime is the most important and cheapest form of nutrient management in our region.

 

As too what Wyatt said yesterday, the use of dolomitic vs calcitic lime has been the subject of much study in the Midwest because we have both types of bedrock, hence both types of lime are available. In our region the consensus is that it makes no difference. Farmers used to spend considerable money to haul calcitic lime from central Illinois to northern Illinois. The parent material for northern soils is dolomitic lime bedrock and the local quarries are mining the same thing. So some farmers thought it made sense to bring in the calcitic form from further south. But it doesn’t really seem to result in any economic value as the pH is still modified properly with the dolomitic lime, and the actual Mg levels of the soils doesn’t change, probably because what they add is insignificant relative to the content already in place. It’s just too high to have a dolomite application make any difference. It’s probably more important to just manage the relationship between K and Mg so that the high level of Mg doesn’t compete with K to the crop’s detriment. Usually farmers manage K carefully so it doesn’t become an issue.

 

I really don’t think anyone meant to be excessively critical on this topic. After reading what I wrote, it sounded harsher than I meant. It’s important that people feel free to ask questions and express opinions. I think that excludes demeaning comments but I don’t think anyone meant to demean others on this thread. There should be room for both constructive criticism and simple questions if this list is to prove useful to everyone.

 

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Sr. Research Specialist, Food Crops

University of Illinois - Crop Sciences

St Charles Horticulture Research Center

535 Randall Road, St Charles, IL, 60174

630-584-7254, FAX-584-4610

wshoemak AT illinois.edu


From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of clearviewfarm AT bluefrog.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:43 PM
To: Market Farming
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] When to seed after liming

 

Bill,

I went to Cornell's website for clarification precisely because I wasn't really up on the "standard practice".  Although I have been farming for thirty some years, I haven't had to  apply lime that often and figured I had better go back and "brush up" before commenting.  Perhaps some people have soils that require frequent liming and know the practice like the back of their hand, but I am not one of them.  That said, no one should be afraid to ask questions.  There have been times where I asked a question and no one replied, much to my dismay.  Perhaps, that is because no one knew an answer or they thought I was too dumb to figure it out for myself.

Kurt Forman
Clearview Farm
Palmyra, NY 14522

--- wshoemak AT illinois.edu wrote:

From: "William H Shoemaker" <wshoemak AT illinois.edu>
To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] When to seed after liming
Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 07:07:42 -0500

Actually, it isn’t surprising that people spread lime without knowing all the implications. First, there aren’t many implications. It is just finely ground limestone (CaCO3) that adjusts pH, minimally. Really, it’s a pretty benign practice. So if they are asking questions about basic agricultural methods, that’s good. That’s what this list is for, isn’t it?

 

Second, I find most farmers really only do what is “standard practice”, without knowing all the ramifications of everything they do. Most just take the advice of someone they trust. That’s true of both conventional and organic farmers. For many, the soil testing service is one of those “someone they trust”. Frankly, there’s a reason why lime is one of the most common soil amendments. Its benefits far outweigh any risks. Are there any risks of applying normal and usual rates of lime when a soil testing service recommends it? So if someone asks about potential risks, its okay, isn’t it? Is there anyone out there who was never a beginner, who always knew how to do things right all the time? I hope this list won’t close the door on someone who asks fundamental questions.

 

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Sr. Research Specialist, Food Crops

University of Illinois - Crop Sciences

St Charles Horticulture Research Center

535 Randall Road, St Charles, IL, 60174

630-584-7254, FAX-584-4610

wshoemak AT illinois.edu


From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Richard Stewart
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 6:46 PM
To: Market Farming
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] When to seed after liming

 

If you are clueless about lime why did you spread it?

 

Just curious.  I am not trying to be super critical or anything I just find it hard to believe that you would spread lime without knowing.  That is sort of important.  I think you should know before purchasing said amendment how to work it our if it can be worked post amendments.

 

I hope I am not the only one wondering about this.

 

Richard Stewart

Carriage House Farm

North Bend, Ohio

 

An Ohio Century Farm Est. 1855

 

(513) 967-1106

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