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cc-sampling - [cc-sampling] Re: Nine Inch Nails lets you remix their stuff

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Subject: Development of the Creative Commons Sampling license (or license option)

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  • From: mark / negativland <markhosler AT bellsouth.net>
  • To: cc-sampling AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Cc: patty AT ithaca.edu
  • Subject: [cc-sampling] Re: Nine Inch Nails lets you remix their stuff
  • Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:55:20 -0700

At 9:11 AM -0700 4/19/05, HeavyConfetti wrote:


What is so unappealing about this sort of thing is that it's simply a cynical marketing gimmick by (mostly) big name artists. I kinda doubt that Mr. Reznor gives a lab rats ass about what anyone actually does with these "re-mixes". Comments about what he does or does not make available seems to miss the point- this is about selling more units, nothing more or less...

FYI- in a kind of reply to some earlier posts here, as a long time collage artist, I can tell you that any media or art out there that has a CC license attached to it is automatically less interesting for us to work with! :) It's an aesthetic thing. With a few notable exceptions ( our "U2" being the biggest one), we are more drawn to things that are quite obscure and harder to find, so that our "found sounds" are more unique to us and our work. Anything that is officially up for grabs, like with a CC license, is also up for grabs to *anybody* out there. So, this makes it less unique, and thus, artistically, less desirable to work with. And so, while of course we support this "re-use" attitude ( and strongly espouse it in our own work as well), it makes the found things less appealing. For example, I'd never want to do anything in a million years with any NIN stuff. *Especially* if he made it available for all to use! While we get sampled all the time ( and of course don't mind if folks do it), it seems like a rather imaginative way to go- appropriating from folks who appropriate! Kinda boring, if you ask me!

We get asked all the time to make our raw samples available to people to use themselves, but ( and some of you might be surprised by this) we have no interest in doing this. Go and find your own cool samples, ding dang it! Jeez.... :) :) ;)


Mark


At 10:43 PM -0700 4/17/05, Jon Phillips wrote:
On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 11:39 -0700, g. thomas furgerson wrote:
Creative Commons,

A new development arose just the other day with the release of Trent
Reznor's (Nine Inch Nails) GarageBand mix of Nine Inch Nails' "Hand
That Feeds" project.

Whoa, this is brilliant to release all the mother formats for tracks. It
is interesting to think that what we hear on a final CD/mp3 is a
compressed version that is a composite of so many different layers and
snippets. If all these pieces were made available with media, I think
that the public would be able to learn various artistic practices easier
with this demystification.

I don't know if this has been addressed or proposed, but a modified
"Sampling" license may be in order.

The sampling license needs to let "listeners" explicitly understand how
samples and loops in their project mixes (not just the final piece, but
the pieces) may be used in and outside the project from which they're
enclosed. This is different from "sampling" just a song, or part of a
song. The project has midi and live performances, Apple and ACID loops
and "one shot" samples. Each element can can be accessed individually
from a project. And rather than having to put a license on each
"piece" of the puzzle, it would be much easier to have a blanket
license over all the pieces. (Read the restrictive license that's
presented when opening the NIN project file.)

Totally agree.

This will become much more necessary in the future, as more artists
embrace fans "remixing" and "reusing" their creative ideas by providing
their tracks as GarageBand mixes, especially as more users jump into
using iLife. (Not to mention the Karaoke type uses when you can drop
the lead vocals out.)

But, at the same time, do current creative commons licenses not support
this? And, is there a need? Would the master files ("mother format")
that are used to compose a derivative, (usually called the original), be
considered the originals? Or, are these original mother formats the
original files? Maybe this does not matter, and it is what work you
designate with a license?

Just some thoughts. ( I envisioned this years ago when ReBirth and
then Reason came out, but that was before Creative Commons.)

Creative Commons should also approach Apple about putting an easy
"button" into iLife apps and other creative apps to add a Creative
Commons and Copyright license tags directly into a project, document,
song file or webpage.

Okay, I'll send the suggestion to Apple myself, but I think the
organization or Mr. Lessig would open more ears (Jobs) to the idea.

Yes, this is a great idea. We are implementing a PUBLISH button in our
next release of Inkscape (www.inkscape.org), an Open Source SVG drawing
tool, that does what you speak.

Also, our tool already allows people to quickly select a creative
commons (among others) license and embed it into files edited with
Inkscape.


--
Jon Phillips

USA PH 510.499.0894
jon AT rejon.org
http://www.rejon.org

Inkscape (http://inkscape.org)
Open Clip Art Library (www.openclipart.org)
CVS Book (http://cvsbook.ucsd.edu)
Scale Journal (http://scale.ucsd.edu)

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. I trluy doubt t
I'm glad to see brother Trent being so charitable, but why couldn't he simply do what other
artists have done: provide a compressed archive including all the tracks in a platform independent
format (e.g., .mp3, .ogg, or even *gasp* .flac). Then let the remixer use the software/OS of
his/her choice. I could even use .aiff, since it can be used on either the mac or pc. Not sure
about the linux world...

I am a PC user and have friends who have GarageBand so I can get with them and have them spit out
the tracks in a format I can use, but I think it would be a good practice in general for "artists"
to post tracks for public manipulation in a general rather than proprietary format.



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