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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Hebron and Sodom (was: gen. 25 (tam?))

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  • From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebron and Sodom (was: gen. 25 (tam?))
  • Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:23:03 +0200

Karl, I'm not going to get into a debate about this, both because George
closed the thread and because I know that whatever I write will not convince
you anyway, but you keep presenting what is a very small minority opinion
among professional archaeologists and historians of the period as if it were
the commonly held view. There is nothing in your final statement, "the
historical records and archeology seem to indicate that Israel entered Egypt
during the third dynasty, and left during the 13th. The Hyksos period started
after the Exodus. With the Exodus dated by the Bible about 1450 BC. But is
also brings the destruction of those cities into Abraham’s time", that
represents the consensus among professional archaeologists and historians of
the period.





Yigal Levin



From: K Randolph [mailto:kwrandolph AT gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 7:09 AM
To: Yigal Levin
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebron and Sodom (was: gen. 25 (tam?))



Yigal:

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
>From K Randolph

The text indicates that near Hebron was a place from which Sodom could be
viewed. Archaeologists have identified the ruins of Sodom, to the south and
east of the Dead Sea. There is no reason to question that Hebron is the same
city as the one that Abraham knew. Logically and textually, it makes sense,
as well as from history and archeology.

>

Karl, this is misleading. "Archaeologists" have not "identified the ruins of
Sodom, to the south and east of the Dead Sea". I assume that you are
referring to Bab ed-Dhra', which is an Early Bronze Age city near the
south-eastern shore of the Dead Sea. Identifying it with Sodom assumes, of
course, that the story of Sodom occurred at the end of the EB (c. 2200 BCE),
which is a very small minority opinion.


Yes, I agree that is a minority opinion, but so is the identification of the
first grand vizier in Egypt during the third dynasty, who was Asiatic and not
Egyptian, who saved Egypt from a seven year famine, who concentrated power
into the hands of pharaoh, and who died at the age of 110.


And assuming it did, how could we know that this place, or any other that you
have in mind, is actually Sodom and not Gomorrah, Admah or Zeboim?


There were five cities found, four of which were destroyed at the same time
by fire. True, the identification of the ruins is done in the order they are
named in Genesis.


Actually, if you look at a map (or actually go there!) you will see that what
is visible from the Hebron area (not from the city itself, but from the
ridges to its east - but yes, I agree that it is the same city that we know
today) is the NORTHERN end of the Dead Sea, NOT the southern end. So taking
the story literally, THAT'S where one should look for Sodom.

What is said in the story is that Abraham and the three guests went a short
distance from Hebron, to where they could overlook the Rift Valley. I have
not been to Hebron, but I have stood on the heights overlooking another rift
valley, that one in New Mexico. On a clear summer day, especially when the
sun is partially behind one, one could see details over a hundred miles away
down in the valley. I suspect the same holds true for the view from near
Hebron. I’d be surprised if the whole of the Dead Sea is not visible from the
lookout near Hebron.


Yigal Levin

The sticking point in this discussion is the timing—when were the different
periods of time? While I am not an expert in history, the historical records
and archeology seem to indicate that Israel entered Egypt during the third
dynasty, and left during the 13th. The Hyksos period started after the
Exodus. With the Exodus dated by the Bible about 1450 BC, that wreaks havoc
with Jim’s theory, as well as with many other historical theories out there.
But is also brings the destruction of those cities into Abraham’s time.

Karl W. Randolph.







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