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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Any meaning to the Dagesh?

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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: "Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>
  • Cc: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Any meaning to the Dagesh?
  • Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:18:48 -0500

Bryant,

The QIYNIYM of Ezekiel 2:10 is the plural of QIYNAH ( קִינָה ), 'lamentation', written, universally methinks, with a yod, as in Jeremiah 7:29. It is KTIB MALE) and, as expected, with no dagesh. The QINIYM of Genesis 6:14 is the plural of QEN, ( קֵן ), 'nest, compartment'. It is KTIB XASER and, as expected, with a dagesh following the XIRIQ.
I think a double consonant should not be written in an English transcription if it is absent in the Hebrew text --- there is N and there is N., which is fine.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:

Dear Yitzhak,

BHS, which uses Leningrad Codex [B19A(L)] has QINNIYM ( קִנִּים ) in Genesis
6:14 and QINIYM ( קִנִים )Ezekiel 2:10.

The NIV Triglot OT, using the text of van der Hooght (1705) as edited by Hahn
(1831) has QINNIYM ( קנִים ) in Genesis 6:14 and QIYNIYM ( קִינִים ) in Ezekiel
2:10.

Thus, it appears that we have two different textual traditions being used.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message -----
From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Any meaning to the Dagesh?


On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Isaac Fried wrote:
Yitzhak,

By writing "qibbacu" you subvert the hebrew text. Apart from the A vowel
that I don't see there, it is written with only one B.

One of us is definitely subverting something.

The QINIYM ( קִנִּים ) of Gn 6:14 is written in QTIB XASER, without a yod,
and the dagesh is appropriately expected after the XIRIQ. The doubling of N
is your own invention. The QIYNIYM ( קִינִים ) of Ez 2:10 is written in
QTIB MALE), with a yod, and appropriately without a dagesh.

This brings up the basic question: Which came first -- your theories or your
version of the Bible? :)

Yitzhak Sapir
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