Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 31: 47 - Suffix -UT

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: "Bryant J. Williams III" <bjwvmw AT com-pair.net>
  • Cc: b-hebrew Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 31: 47 - Suffix -UT
  • Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:37:15 -0500

Bryant,

You may want to look at my book The Analytic and Synthetic Etymology of the Hebrew Language, which is found in its entirety at my website www.hebrewetymology.com It is an etymological dictionary analyzing all Hebrew roots extant as to their elementary constituents. Every cited BH word is parsed for its radicals and the identity markers, or personal pronouns, it contains.

Isaac Fried, Boston University


On Nov 29, 2007, at 1:08 AM, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:

Dear Isaac,

[Isaac]
I have said it often and very clearly before, and I will say it again: Every U
and I in a Hebrew word is a universal identity marker [aka personal pronoun],
invariably. There is no such thing in Hebrew as a "vowel", except for A. The
idea of the vowel is an alien carry-over into Hebrew from Indo- European
grammar.

[Bryant]
You may or may not be correct, but please prove the above assertion with
documentation, sources, examples, etc.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
To: "David Kummerow" <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>
Cc: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 31: 47 - Suffix -UT


David,

You have said

"Actually, I said, and have said, a lot more than that."

I know. I would greatly prefer, though, to stay focused on one thing
at a time.

I have said it often and very clearly before, and I will say it again:

Every U and I in a Hebrew word is a universal identity marker [aka
personal pronoun], invariably.

There is no such thing in Hebrew as a "vowel", except for A. The idea
of the vowel is an alien carry-over into Hebrew from Indo-European
grammar.

Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:06 AM, David Kummerow wrote:


Hi Isaac,

Actually, I said, and have said, a lot more than that.

Your failure to address such foundational issues as raised is
telling. As I said before, I will no longer waste my time
responding unless you choose to address mine and others' arguments.
I have better things to do than interact with nonsense ideas having
no linguistic basis.

Regards,
David Kummerow.


David, You are saying
"Isaac, whenever I see a 'u' and an 'i' I see a vowel -- not
necessary a person-number-gender (PNG) inflection. I don't know
why you say I see it when I don't, esp. when I keep pointing out
that this is so."
Of course you see --- God blessed you with eyesight. But you fail,
I am afraid, to understand what you are seeing. The rest is a
corollary to the above.
Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Nov 28, 2007, at 10:48 PM, David Kummerow wrote:
Hi Isaac,

See comments below:


David,
Whenever you look at an U and an I [also O and E] in a Hebrew
word you see a universal identity marker [also known as a
personal pronoun], invariably.

Isaac, whenever I see a 'u' and an 'i' I see a vowel -- not
necessary a person-number-gender (PNG) inflection. I don't know
why you say I see it when I don't, esp. when I keep pointing out
that this is so.


If T is not radical, then it is a personal pronoun,
invariably. I have said this repeatedly on this list [also, of
course, in my book, which can be seen in its entirety at
www.hebrewetymology.com <http://www.hebrewetymology.com>].

That is simply false and this type of mistake lies at the very
heart of your erroneous methodology. /t/ as a phoneme in BH is
open to be used: 1) within the 'root' for any given word; 2)
within the paradigm of independent personal pronouns; 3) as
verbal and nominal marking of PNG; and 4) within any other
morpheme with various functions, eg -ut. So basically anywhere.
It seems to me you do not understand what phonemic status
entails. /t/ as a phoneme is not constrained to equate solely to
either a 'root' letter or a marker of PNG. The fact that you
insist this is so is a mystery to me. You attempt some sort of
advanced linguistic analysis of Hebrew, yet you seem to not have
a sufficient grasp of foundational linguistic methodology.

It is for illustrative purposes only that I specifically read -
U- as HU), and -I- as HI). Consider the example of $-U-LAX, $AL-
U-AX, and $ALX-U, of the root $LX, 'send'. Even though the
latter means 'THEY have sent' I permit myself to read it as $ALX-
HU) by virtue of the universality of U.

There is no sense to 'illustrative purposes' if it is just plain
wrong. In any case, there is nothing 'universal' about 'u'. As a
vowel, it is not constrained for use simply as a marker of PNG.
The phonemic status of /u/ dictates that this is so. It is
secondary to this that this vowel is used in some situations as a
marker of PNG. Moreover, I think $-U-LAX and $AL-U-AX are
figments of your imagination: they form no part of the paradigm
for $LX. You see PNG marking where morphemes semantically
indicate something entirely different -- but now in this case
you're even adding vowels in for extra pronouns! Once you begin
to operate with the methodology you do, it seems there's no end
to how many pronouns you can 'find'!

I am preparing now a reply to Kenneth Greifer in which I will
elaborate on this in some greater detail. Isaac Fried, Boston
University

I wish you wouldn't. We all know what you think, and since it has
no basis in reality it is better you kept your views to yourself
to save tiring the list with any more of this.

Regards,
David Kummerow.



_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of
Com-Pair Services!



--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.9/1157 - Release Date: 11/28/07
12:29 PM




For your security this Message has been checked for Viruses as a courtesy of Com-Pair Services!






Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page