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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17)

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  • From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • To: Karl Randolph <kwrandolph AT email.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17)
  • Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:32:02 +0100

On 05/07/2005 21:38, Karl Randolph wrote:

Peter:

Having done some blacksmithing as well as other metal work, I now know why
welding was rare and uncertain before the invention of the arc welder. All
the welding I have done is with the arc welder.


It was not me who suggested that the verse is about welding. I mentioned it as one among a number of possibilities. My favourite is magnetism, of course something which applies to iron but not the more common bronze. But I like your suggestion of the importance of having experience in the relevant field, or drawing on the direct experience of those who have, rather than imagining what might have happened.
...

I noticed that the two cases where YXD is used, YXD is not alone, but once
with “in”, the other time “with”. ...


Well, twice with B-, once also with )ET ("with"). But none of these are instrumental. I think this is sufficient to rule out an instrumental sense of B- with this verb.

... Such a helper word is lacking in the second half of the verse. In the
first half, it may be possible to translate “Iron is joined by (means of)
iron” where the instrumental use of the prefix B- provides the helping word
for YXD, but then there is no corresponding parallelism in the second half of
the verse. Even the instrumental use is problematic as rivet making and
setting is a (now largely lost) art, much of it done historically with bronze
or copper rivets, if not joining through soldering with copper or tin. The
locative use of the B- prefix here does not make sense from a blacksmithing
point of view.


Perhaps not, but it does if magnetism is in view.

Now we have possible verbs: XDD with the idea of grinding or sharpening, XDH
encouraging, XWD asking a didactic question often in the form of a riddle and
YXD being together with. Each word is used as a verb fewer than ten times in
Tanakh, most fewer than five. Therefore any statement will have to be only
tentative, one can not state definitely how this verse is read. I personally
find the joining idea raising more questions than answers, while the
sharpening idea gives a clean reading. You are free to disagree with me.


I do. The idea of sharpening iron with iron simply doesn't make sense. Nor does the idea of one person sharpening another - although I know preachers through the centuries have invented a number of imaginative interpretations of this.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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