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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Placeholders: )$R w/o antecedent

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  • From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Placeholders: )$R w/o antecedent
  • Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:40:22 -0500

Dear Peter,

... The )$R in both clauses is probably substituting for the people. That's what I'm used to seeing. Fairly literally it is : "For thus says the Lord God, 'See, I am giving you into the hand of those you hate, into the hand of those from whom your soul is alienated.'"

Well, fairly literally, but more literally "For thus says the Lord God, 'See, I am giving you into the hand which you hate, into the hand from which your NEPE$ is alienated.'" Your "of those" is an interpretative addition, although the plural MHM, which doesn't go with the singular hand, suggests the plurality. (And as you see, I don't like to gloss NEPE$ as "soul".)


HH: But your "more literal" translation did not include the plurality of MHM. If you include that plurality in the translation, you have to change the sense of )$R from "which" to "those." ...


Or you say that this implies that the hands were in fact plural, as they must in fact have been. Like colloquial English, Hebrew has no problem using a plural pronoun with a referent which is grammatically singular but logically plural. And if you don't like to change "hand" to "hands" in a literal translation, the implication is that literal translation is impossible. Well, that is a position I hold anyway, but we discuss that on another list. Your added "those" breaks the literalness at least as much as my suggested change to the plural.

HH: I don't expect such a clash of number here as you suggest. I think it does not occur with hand, or is rare. You seem to be claiming that giving a plural idea to )$R is somehow not literal. But )$R is a relative pronoun and can represent either a singular or plural antecedent. if the referent is plural, it is fine and literal to use a plural idea in the translation of the relative pronoun.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard




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