From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Tanach book order - different in Christian Bibles
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:24:37 -0700
Philippe:
I don't think there will be any problem merely pointing out
similarities between Greek literature and Tanakh.
The problem is when one tries to determine who borrowed from whom.
There are three possible scenarios: the Greeks borrowed from the
Hebrews, the Hebrews borrowed from the Greeks, and there were ideas
that were common to both cultures (indeed, known throughout ancient
Levant) that similarities are the result that both were similar in the
first place.
In Herodotos' day, the Jewish diaspora had already reached all over
the Persian Empire, including those Greek cities under Persian
control. Likewise Jewish ideas were known wherever there were Jews.
Thus it is possible that Herodotos knew of Jewish ideas, while not
being familiar with the relatively insignificant province of Judea.
>
> ...
>
I refer to my question above, where I tend to point to the book of
Romans, chapter two, where Paul wrote that there are a lot of
similarities between Jewish ideas and the rest of the world, because
the ideas are common to all people. While the Church Fathers may have
claimed that the Greeks stole from Tanakh, Paul took the third option
I mentioned above, claiming that they were common ideas.
>
It could be that if the similarities are mentioned, the question
immediately comes up, which came first? Who borrowed from whom? But as
I mentioned at the beginning, the similarities could be from the fact
that many of the ideas were common to all peoples, not just one from
which all others borrowed.
Your beliefs are religion, if you define religion according to
function, not form.
The problem is that we know so little about ancient history. Even the
years when prominent kings reigned can, in some cases, be off by as
much as centuries. While we recognize that such disagreements exist,
it is not our purpose to push one side over the other.
When was Tanakh written? Internally, several of the books give a date.
For example, Daniel makes the claim that it was written by the court
official who retired at the end of the 70 year Babylonian Captivity.
Isaiah wrote the names of the kings who reigned during his life. There
are several other similar examples, though not all books have
authorship dates. Are those trustworthy dates? Some of us say "Yes"
while others say "No". The reason I bring this up, is that if those
dates are accurate, then it is impossible for borrowing to have come
from Hellenism to Tanakh, but it leaves open the possibility of shared
ideas or borrowing from Tanakh to Hellenism. If those dates are not
accurate, then all bets are off. But we have no external data either
to verify or falsify those internal dates, so whichever position we
take, it is one of faith. That's why we don't proselytize on this
forum.
Karl W. Randolph.
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