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Subject: Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)

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  • From: Helen McCookerybook <helen_mccookerybook AT yahoo.co.uk>
  • To: typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [TypicalGirls] Fw: Re: The Young Lady's Post-Punk Handbook
  • Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:59:31 +0000 (GMT)





--- On Sun, 15/2/09, Helen McCookerybook <helen_mccookerybook AT yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> From: Helen McCookerybook <helen_mccookerybook AT yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] The Young Lady's Post-Punk Handbook
> To: mike AT appelstein.com
> Date: Sunday, 15 February, 2009, 11:58 AM
> I have entered this discussion rather late, but not having
> been in the immediate clique of the Slits at the time (I was
> a Brighton punk rocker not a London one), I can vouch for
> the fact that anyone who read the overground UK music papers
> and underground fanzines would have been very aware of them,
> and also that their music was regularly aired by John Peel
> (millions of listeners in the UK) and also, more
> importantly, played by (old skool) DJs at hundreds of gigs
> all over the UK before the bands came on. They were a direct
> influence on Madonna who was in the front row at their New
> York shows according to Ari (her early style is Viv
> Albertine's, really) and also on Boy George and others
> of the poppy-punky-reggae fraternity.
> Perhaps their listeners and early fans 'grew out
> of' music and punk, and their significance is greatest
> for those of us who never did?
> Helen
>
>
> --- On Sun, 15/2/09, Mike Appelstein
> <mike AT appelstein.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Mike Appelstein <mike AT appelstein.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] The Young Lady's
> Post-Punk Handbook
> > To: "'Typical Girls: Women in
> Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa
> 1975-1980s)'"
> <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Sunday, 15 February, 2009, 12:36 AM
> > This is actually a dude - name of Ian, I think.
> He's
> > best known for the
> > 1981 box set he offered for sale on ILXOR.com a few
> years
> > back: 12 CDs worth
> > of gems from said year, organized by vague
> mood/subject
> > matter. Looks like
> > he's posting many of those 1981 mixes on this new
> blog.
> > Everyone should
> > check 'em out - he's pretty young and it's
> > interesting to hear how he's
> > absorbed the sounds from that year.
> >
> > But it is an interesting question, isn't it? It
> seems
> > like there were women
> > involved in the underground scene that certainly had a
> role
> > in shaping the
> > culture from the very beginning: Linder Sterling,
> early
> > Siouxsie, the Slits,
> > etc. But I was a teenager in the early '80s, and
> I can
> > tell you that
> > Chrissie Hynde and Deborah Harry had more influence on
> the
> > rock culture at
> > large at the time. I don't mean to demean either
> of
> > them - the Pretenders
> > had some great songs, and Blondie was consciously
> > subverting the girl-singer
> > image before being subsumed by it. But very few
> people
> > were listening to
> > the Slits or Ludus at the time beyond their immediate
> > clique. I think
> > what's happened is that the rest of the world
> finally
> > caught up to them (and
> > we can thank listmembers like Tobi and Sharon for
> helping
> > to make it
> > happen).
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > mike AT appelstein.com
> > http://www.appelstein.com/blog/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: typicalgirls-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:typicalgirls-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On
> Behalf
> > Of Dina Hornreich
> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:17 PM
> > To: Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground
> > Music (Circa
> > 1975-1980s)
> > Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] The Young Lady's
> Post-Punk
> > Handbook
> >
> > Thanks for pointing us in this directions. This
> woman's
> > blog asks
> > interesting questions. I just posted something very
> quickly
> > trying to
> > answer the questions she's raised:
> >
> > "But what's interesting to me is that the
> women of
> > post-punk seem to
> > have felt completely free to express their feminine
> and
> > masculine and
> > simply human qualities freely. Few female musicians of
> > post-punk seem
> > to be "playing a man's game," nor
> presenting
> > a "version" of the main
> > channel, nor catering to male expectations of the Rock
> > Chick
> > (certainly not in an unproblematised, unironic way).
> These
> > figures
> > stand as central to my understanding of this sort of
> music
> > as any
> > men. And I feel they're recognised broadly as
> pillars
> > of the music.
> > But having presented these mixes, I'd be very keen
> to
> > hear your
> > ideas: had you ever thought particularly one way or
> another
> > about
> > women in post-punk; are there identifiable ways in
> which
> > women shaped
> > post-punk, or was post-punk simply rock's first
> > androgynous
> > embodiment; do you agree women are central to the
> story of
> > post-punk,
> > or were they in fact marginalised at the time?
> (I'd be
> > especially
> > curious to hear the experiences of those of you who
> were
> > "there," and
> > not in diapers like myself.)"
> >
> > Discuss!
> >
> > -Dina
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TypicalGirls mailing list
> > TypicalGirls AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/typicalgirls






  • [TypicalGirls] Fw: Re: The Young Lady's Post-Punk Handbook, Helen McCookerybook, 02/15/2009

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