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  • From: Hamish Greig <hgreig AT bigpond.net.au>
  • To: Eric Sandall <eric AT sandall.us>, sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Cc:
  • Subject: [SM-Discuss] Re: Personal attacks and history
  • Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:03:07 +1000

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Eric, thanks for your response, I have forwarded it to the mail list.
I have nothing to hide and whoever complained to you would likely want this
discussed in the open also.
Replies are interspersed.

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 01:43, Eric Sandall wrote:
> Hamish,
>
> Most of us here at SMGL respect you, but we do not like to see personal
> attacks (however people may feel they are warranted) against anyone in
> public forums, either current developers or no longer with us.

My email was not a baseless personal attack, it was an unusual request with
some facts to support the reason for it.
If those facts are wrong, I apologise in advance and await further
clarification.

> I know you
> do not agree with us allowing Schabell any access to anything, but then we
> are so short-handed that we can hardly lose anyone that does fix most bugs
> they try to fix (though sometimes they cause more problems). Since you no
> longer wish to contribute to SMGL (as you've made clear several times) I
> would ask that you stop harassing those who do. As you know, I see every
> commit coming into our repositories and audit what everyone is doing (not
> just one person) and so catch mistakes (others make mistakes as well, yet
> you don't seem to come down on them) and help correct them ASAP. While I
> may miss a few things, both Arwed and Andrew also seem to keep abreast of
> things. If we had as many developers as I'd like /then/ we would feel that
> we could take certain measures, but until then, as I've said several times,
> we need all the help we can get. While developers leave, others come in,
> but it doesn't always even out. We had many more developers when we first
> started after the split (one for every section, with a few assistants), but
> now we are stretched fairly thin. I feel that we're moving forward, but at
> a slower pace than I'd like. If we followed your plan we'd have almost no
> developers since only a few (such as Andrew and Arwed) do most of the work,
> the rest of us look pretty lazy and shouldn't have access, but as I say,
> every little bit helps.
>

This is not about Schabell or any other individual.
When I decided to leave smgl, the attitude was that although there had been
problems, the people involved were no longer in lead roles or even active, so
nothing needed discussing and no (punitive or otherwise) action was
neccessary. I tried to continue, but while working on the ISO I didn't like
that the problems were ignored and swept under the carpet so I left.
Unfortunately the same problems are still in evidence now , but because I am
no longer a project member , I do not have the opportunity to audit
submissions like you do , and so I wish for my name and details to be
removed.

> As for the removal of your name from our history files I feel such
> behaviour is not ethical. While you may not agree with some of our policies
> (which is your right) we do believe in giving credit where it is due and
> not in modifying what went on in the past to change what others see. We
> never removed Kyle's name from
> anything and we're not going to start now with yours.
>

Removing peoples names and details from files without their knowledge or
permission because of a change of leadership or direction would be unethical
and wrong. Like it or not the project was started by Kyle Sallee and credit
is due him and the original team members.
I, however, am removing all past, present and future claims to anything I did
for smgl and publically reassigning those rights/copyright to the smgl
project. Of course they were all contributed under the GPL so anyone can
continue to use them, but the rights now belong to SMGL, and anyone using
them should credit SMGL, not me.
Please replace my name and email details with those of either another
developer or with the details of the project itself. I am happy to perform
the changes myself, if no-one else wishes too, I only need access.
I will of course be happy to remove anyone's name and details from the
product
I am developing also, rights will not need reassigning to me or my project.

> Please feel free to contact myself, or any of the other developers, if you
> wish to make more comments, or even the public forums, but if you do so I
> request that you refrain from making personal attacks, since then I get
> complaints and have to think of some appropriate response (such as this
> e-mail).
>

Reporting facts honestly can look like personal attacks for the person under
the spotlight, but if they don't enjoy being in the spotlight, they need to
address the issues themselves or even consider whether contributing to an
open source project is the right thing for them to do. Everything is
publically available to anyone in the world and people need to remember that.
I also suggest dealing with complaints and responding in the public domain,
not privately. It promotes a healthier moral, benefits the community spirit
and leaves no room for future accusations.

> I wish we could have retained you, but every person has to go their own way
> and follow their own conscience.
>
> -sandalle

Hamish
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  • [SM-Discuss] Re: Personal attacks and history, Hamish Greig, 07/07/2004

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