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  • From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>, Seed Keepers <seedkeepers@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Seed Keepers] [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees
  • Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:51:13 -0500


Cc.: seedkeepers list
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/seedkeepers

I would like to see us start a fruit tree seed exchange program and network. I would be very interested in acquiring seeds for trees that will reproduce true to form for apple, plum, Sal's orange-grapefruit,
pear, blackberry, raspberry and others. Is anyone interested. I have fruiting eleagnus, plum and heirloom blackberry to exchange.

LL

On 2/1/2012 10:19 AM, sals3 wrote:
I like this thread. I found that some mangoes grow true to type. I can't
spell but they call them pollyembroatic or something like that. they way I
tell is that the mango seed that put out more than one tree from the seed
usually come true to mom. I live in Santa Barbara and I had lots of grafted
mango trees that were kill back below the graft from a freeze we had in the
90s so now I really prize seedlings because there is no dying below the
graft and they can come back true. I know folks that only eat from seedling
trees and think grafting is not so good. either the scion grows faster than
the graft or vice a verse . I think for money people in stores all buy Hass
or name brands. so for money I grow good tasting grafted trees but I also
love seedlings . I also have a white peach that has great seedlings . I
have a orange grapefruit that is so sweet and comes true to seed so far.
remember all trees came from seedlings . I would like to see the list of
true parent seed plants. nothing beats a true seedling with tap root and
natural growth. all one and the same plant .
----- Original Message -----
From: "loren luyendyk"<loren@sborganics.com>
To: "Permaculture Listserve"<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees



In my experience, pruning usually leads to more pruning. Depending on the
tree's response to pruning (maybe due to the timing of the pruning, ie
waxing or waning moon), more corrective pruning may be necessary to keep
the shape desired, or to manage rampant growth (water sprouts) which may
compromise tree health and stability.

I am a fan of minimal pruning. I prune to correct crossing branches, or
to reduce the chance of branches breaking due to occlude bark or bad
branch angles. It is true that larger and higher quality fruit is the
result of a proper pruning regime.

Grafted trees definitely grow differently than seedlings. Due to their
precocious nature, they set large amounts of fruit early on in life.
Also, depending on where the scion came from on the mother tree, the graft
retains the memory. For example, if you use a laterally growing branch
for a scion, the grated tree may grow sideways. Same goes for cuttings.

I have been working on growing out fruit trees that are true to type from
seed, in my own small and slow way. I have found that many subtropical
fruit trees produce high quality fruit from seed, ie cherimoyas, loquats,
rose apples, pineapple guavas and others. We also have some local
naturalized white peaches that are great from seed. These trees all seem
to have great form naturally and do not need much pruning at all.

I think Fukuoka must have been growing seedlings, especially since he was
so zen and probably didn't deem it necessary to graft. I also like Sepp
Holzer's approach to plant seeds in the field and graft in place, and then
leave the seedling branches below the graft. I don't think he prunes much
at all either.

Loren Luyendyk
ISA Certified Arborist #WE 7805A
Permaculture Design& Education
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.globalpermaculture.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org



  • Re: [Seed Keepers] [permaculture] Fwd: Fukuoka and trees, Lawrence F. London, Jr., 02/01/2012

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