Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[Thomas Gollier <tgollier AT gmail.com>]

Rhonda,

Thanks for the welcome.  I can't say that I'm ready to make any pronouncements regarding Percy-Peirce-Wittgenstein,

but I have been playing them off against each other when it comes to Percy's distinction between "symbols" and "signs."

His distinction seem to correspond with  Peirce's distinction between hypostatic abstractions (conceptualizing something

apart from its environment) and precisive abstraction (separating something off in connection with its environment) which, 

in turn seems to correspond with Wittgenstein making the difference between saying "I know that's a tree"  and "that's a 

tree" ('On Certainty', §585).

The idea with Peirce seems to be that the use of signs and precisive abstraction are more primitive than the use of

symbols and hypostatic abstractions.  He writes in one place:

      "Without precisive abstraction man would not be man; but I can well believe, — indeed, I do think it probable, — 

      that a large fraction of the races of mankind, by no means necessarily very low in the arts, are entirely devoid of 

      the power of subjectal [hypostatic] abstraction." ['New Elements if Mathematics' 3.916-18]

Percy, on the other hand, says somewhere that all languages are symbolic.  And, if we look at Stuart Dreyfus' 

description of his experiences with chess [in Mind Over Machine, p. 25]:

A precisive abstraction — or in Percy's terminology a functional use of signs that may be verbalized or 

not — seems to be at the pinnacle of human accomplishment.  Although, I have to admit, I'm kind of like 

Stuart and don't like knowing "that's a tree" without being able to say "I know that's a tree."

Sorry to be so long-winded (myself and with the quotes), but as you can probably see, I find the com-

parisons between these three philosophers fascinating.

Tom

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 8:20 AM RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:

Hi Tom and welcome to the Percy-L,

We do wake up occasionally, if given enough motivation, but I suppose many of us aren’t as young as we once were!

SAMLA (The South Atlantic Modern Language Association) will have a session on Percy and language. Maybe you could present something connecting Percy, Peirce, and Wittgenstein? I’m pretty sure proposals are still being accepted. There will be some Percy-Peirce folks in attendance. 

Percy’s philosophy continues to gain traction. I, for one, would be very interested in hearing more of your thoughts on Percy-Peirce-Wittgenstein. 

Rhonda

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Thomas Gollier <tgollier AT gmail.com> wrote:

Lauren,

It certainly is a quiet list, but thank you for your welcome.  I also enjoyed your quote:

     “Once the final break is made between reality and language Arguments generate 

     their own Force and lay out their own logical Rules.”

from a text I'm not familiar with, yet.  Personally, though, I think Percy is being too nice.

When denotation is taken as some kind of primary connotation, taking the place of the

object itself, and to which other connotations can then be attached, we don't have

"arguments" or "rules" but just what I've seen called "cascading connotations."  A flow

of images in what Hegel called "picture-thinking."

This is, however, where I find Percy most interesting.

Thanks,

Tom

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:10 AM Lauren Berdy <lauren.stacy.berdy AT gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

I am glad you stated this new thread

keep these words of Dr Percy’s above my desk

“ once the final break is made between reality and language 

Arguments generate their own

Force and lay out their own logical

Rules”

For this reader anyway as I get older

And reread The Doctor it comes to

Me so readily that he like Lawrence

Before him pointed us back to this

Earth, this life, this being

What is it?

And all the while summing up words

That summon up the greatest of our human abilities 

The merging of seeing with knowing

He was a seer and he knew the intellect is a collector. 

The meddling intellect mangles things

Quite badly 

Look At Sutter!

Thank you

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2019, at 11:26 AM, Henry P. Mills <wppdirector AT gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Percy-L:

This message from new member Tom Gollier was misaddressed to the list. Just as a reminder, Percy-L submissions should go to: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>.  Let us welcome Tom!

Henry Mills

Percy-L Administrator

-----

From: Thomas Gollier <tgollier AT gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Welcome to Percy-L

Date: April 7, 2019 at 11:18:33 PM EDT

To: "Henry P. Mills" <wppdirector AT gmail.com>

Cc: Percy List <percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>

Henry,

Thank you for your welcome.

I ran into Percy a number of years ago when I was on the Peirce list, and I remember being impressed with the Trobriand Islanders and their pocket knives as being what philosophy, and science, should be all about.  Now reading Wittgenstein and trying to correlate him with Peirce, I thought of Percy again, and have been working through some of his articles.  To me he seems just as precise in his thinking as Peirce or Wittgenstein, but much less technical and much more down-to-earth in what he has to say about it.

The list does seem quiet, but I'm hoping it will offer some "intersubjective" support for these efforts.

Thanks again,

Tom

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