Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[Kenneth Ketner <b9oky AT TTACS.TTU.EDU>]

Karey, Yes, the reasons why abduction is possible are quite interesting,
and a lesser-known but relly important part of Peirce's approach. You or
any of the Percy gang that wants to pursue the Peirce connection to
Percy should consider coming over the the Institute here. We gottalatta
relevant stuff, and some guys who work in it constantly who are willing
to yak and assist.

My impression is that Percy had a rather tightly bounded set of problems
that he was working, and it took him some time to admit a new set of
relevant material into that fold. So in regard to the reason abduction
is possible, he may have seen the direction that went in Peirce, but
resolved for the moment at least that it was not of direct interest to
his current research focus. Just a guess. The first abductive fallacy is
falling in love with your hypothesis instead of testing it severely.

The address I have for Doubletake magazine is 55 Davis Square,
Somerville, MA 02144.

> "Karey L. Perkins" wrote:
> 
> I have several questions/thoughts, the first couple not related
> to Ken's insights below, the next are:
> 
> (1)  Did anyone go to the Percy Symposium?  How was it?  I couldn't
> make it, just wondering.  Hopefully I'll make it next year...
> 
> (2) I did make it to Loyola Univ. to take a peek at their Percy
> archives...just curious.  If you note on the Percy Internet Project it
> has a thoroughly detailed and itemized list of the Chapel Hill
> collection, and nothing listed for what Loyola has, just that Loyola
> has something.  I realized when I got there that that's because LOYOLA
> doesn't know what Loyola has.  Apparently Patrick Samway gave them a
> bunch of stuff about four years ago, and it has yet to be (organized?
> archived?  catalogued? not sure of correct term).  Arthur the
> Archivist escorted me through some of it, and there was some
> interesting stuff in the whole mish-mash of mush...including a signed
> and dedicated book by Ken Ketner...(!)  Lots of newspaper clippings,
> multiple editions, letters, "ephemera," but all of it closely guarded
> by our friendly archivist, who is, it turns out, not really the
> archivist.  She (the real Percy archivist) died a month ago, surely a
> bad (or perhaps blessed) fate for her, but definitely not a good thing
> for Loyola's Percy archives.
> 
> Anyway, among all this, there is a wonderful framed picture of Percy
> in a "morning suit" (isn't that what it's called -- a Southern tuxedo
> for morning weddings or special dressy occasions or some such) that I
> thought would be great on the Percy Internet Project site (Henry
> Mills, are you listening?).  However, my guide through the inferno,
> who was reluctant to even admit me into the inner sanctum, would
> doubtless not even consider releasing a copy of it to the likes of
> me...perhaps someone with more clout could make a case for it.
> 
> (3)  Ken, this information (below) has been really helpful, invaluable
> really, and all that quite apart from its entertainment value.  I
> truly appreciate it.  I have a million billion zillion questions to
> ask about all this stuff, but will restrain myself and not impede on
> your no doubt busy and important schedule as I imagine most of these
> questions will be answered in my future readings of Peirce, your book,
> et al.  However, there are some questions that might not be, and I'd
> be interested in your insights on the following:
> 
> Percy writes on page 322 of 2000 edition of Message in the Bottle
> regarding how men's [and women's] minds usually hit on the correct
> principle after only a few guesses, that "Peirce's own explanation of
> the extraordinary success...is founded in his own allegiance to
> philosophical realism, the belief that general principles actually
> operate in nature apart from men's minds and that men's minds are
> nevertheless capable of knowing these principles.   Peirce hazards the
> guess that, since 'the reasoning mind is a product of the universe,'
> it is natural to suppose that the laws and uniformities that prevail
> throughout the universe should also be 'incorporated in his own being'
> (Peirce)."
> 
> Percy responds, "Maybe so.  This is only speculation, however
> interesting, about why abduction works,"  and he goes on to
> philosophize about the theory of abduction itself.
> 
> With that, he dismisses it.  However, this seems to me to be a really
> crucial point, the crux of the whole issue, and a key (or certainly
> one of the keys) to the nature of man and Percy's "radical
> anthropology."  I'm wondering if Percy dismisses this due to his
> medical/scientific background (this is too "out there" for Percy, like
> astrology or some such which he clearly disparages).  Or he just
> overlooks it, for whatever reason.
> 
> The other thing, and I mention this at risk of revealing my lack of
> knowledge of Peirce (yet), is that it seems somewhat similar to Jung's
> synchronicity.  This seems to me to be the "third way" ... after mere
> cause-effect behaviorism, and after Descartes' dualism (both rejected
> by Percy), then Jung offers a viable alternative.  In fact, I had
> thought Percy mentioned that and went all the way back through Message
> in the Bottle to find it, and couldn't, and am now wondering if I just
> imagined that somewhere.  Does anyone know if Percy ever refers to
> Jung?
> 
> (4)  I found the essays you referred to on the Peirce site; would you
> recommend anything else on the site (the introductions perhaps?)
> 
> (5)  How can one obtain an issue of Doubletake?
> 
> (6) I'm giving a paper on Percy at the Conference on Christianity and
> Literature, St. Francis College, Oct. 26, New York....no special
> insights, just an attempt to summarize for my own purposes, his
> "semiotic...."
> 
> Karey
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kenneth Ketner
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 12:39 PM
> Subject: [percy-l] Re: Abduction, not kidnapping but guessing
> 
> Yes, Percy wrote the essay in DOUBLETAKE MAGAZINE probably about 1960.
> I
> lay unpublished, probably because it appeared incomplete. I began
> studying it and wrapping my brain around it. One day while driving to
> work (I get some good thoughts that way) it hit me that if one adds
> the
> three words now at the end of the essay as published in DOUBLETAKE, it
> is complete. So I discussed this with Mrs. Percy and after
> consideration
> she offered my edition of the piece to Walker's friend, Robert Coles,
> the main man of DOUBLETAKE, and so it was published. It is significant
> for Percy scholarship because it shows the early and strong influence
> of
> Peirce's Semeiotic (not contemporary semiotics -- there's a vast
> difference) in Walker's approach.
> 
> You employ guessing all the time -- each of us does -- so we are all
> masters of it. To learn more about it, observe yourself when guessing
> and compare notes with other guessers. Guessing produces hypotheses --
> statements of possibility. Just don't fall in love with your
> hypotheses.
> They are for torturing, not for loving. Those that survive the torture
> are the components of objective thought (which some call science).
> Some
> survivors get re-tortured as the years go by, after new evidence or
> new
> methods appear. Hence a healthy (open-minded and level-headed) guesser
> is what we call a rational person.
> 
> In Peirce, guessing is not intuition. For Peirce, 'intuition' has at
> least two senses, and like 'sign' (which has at least 2 senses), one
> must be careful which sense is in action at the time. 'Intuition1'
> isCartesian foundationalism, there are priviledged and certain basic
> foundations of knowledge. Peirce wrecked Descartes in his series of 3
> essays: Questions Concerning Certain faculties Claimed for Man, Some
> Consequences of Four Incapacities, and Grounds of Validity of the Laws
> of Logic (these three in effect consititute a 3 chapter book, and they
> mark a major fault-line in the history of thought, a location where
> the
> old ends and something new begins). 'Intuition2' refers to
> observational
> method in logic and mathematics; it is a fallible (noncertain) and
> experimental approach to understanding the methods employed in
> mathematical and logical research.
> 
> 'Sign1' is that which represents an object to an interpretant. "His
> wave
> was a sign of greeting." The object was an intent to greet, the sign
> of
> that intent was the wave, to the interpretant (some other person
> intended as the recipient of the intent to greet). Sign1 is best
> dropped
> and replaced with 'representamen' to avoid confusion.
> 
> 'Sign2' is an entire triadic sign relation: in the above example of
> greeting, it is the nonreducible triadic relation among the greeter's
> intent, the wave, and the recipient. This is the 'sign' of Peirce's
> Theory of Signs, or Semiotic. (Semeiotic spoken as see-my-OH-tick is
> terminologically and linguistically correct, and honors prior
> scientists
> in the tradition such as Locke or the Greek physicians, whereas
> semiotics is a mixed bag arbitrarily strung together; compare
> semeiotic
> with logic with rhetoric with the german semiotik with the french
> semiotique, not with the uncontrolled tendency in english to add ics
> on
> everything in sight.) Peirce never used a triangle to represent a sign
> relation (because on his well articulated approach, that would
> represent
> a sum of three dyadic relations, which he clearly proved cannot
> constitute a triadic relation); instead he represented triadic
> relations
> as a large dot with three lines emerging from it (see my essay in
> THIEF
> OF PEIRCE at page 213). The categories are nothing but types of
> relational forms: Firstness = all those relations whose external form
> is
> that of a monadic relation; Secondness = all those relations whose
> external form is that of a dyadic relation; Thirdness = all those
> relations whose external form is that of a dyadic relation. The
> categories are complete, because the nonreduction theorem that triadic
> relations cannot be constructed from dyadic relations was established
> by
> Peirce and recently re-proven at the highest level of mathematical
> rigor
> by Robert Burch (again see my stuff in THIEF); one aspect of the
> nonreduction theorem is that triadic relations can be used to
> construct
> all other relation types.
> 
> ALL TOGETHER NOW, SAY IT -- See-my-OH-tick is the main part of
> Prag-MAT-i-siz-em.
> 
> Once again, where your brain goes your lips will follow, ALL TOGETHER
> NOW, anda won anda twoa....
> 
> > "Karey L. Perkins" wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > I, too, appreciated the definition and it makes better sense now.
> As
> > I was reading Percy, I was getting the impression that "abduction"
> was
> > "intuition" -- how different is that from "guessing?"  How would you
> > differentiate the two, or would you?
> >
> > Second question:  did PERCY publish in Doubletake in Winter 2002?
> > (Hmmm...he's been busy in the afterlife, hasn't he?) Or is this a
> > chapter from his unpublished manuscript "Symbol and Existence"?  I
> saw
> > that it is at UNC-Chapel Hill and wondered if it was worth the 8
> hour
> > drive to go look at it...has anyone read it/seen it?
> >
> > The reason I ask is I think the dissertation is going to be on this
> > topic after all -- Percy's semiotics, as it relates to Peirce, et
> > al...really fascinating stuff, don't you think?  So I'll be reading
> > your book(s) (Ken) and may have lots more questions but I'll try to
> > keep them to a minimum!
> >
> > Karey
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: James Piat
> > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 9:52 PM
> > Subject: [percy-l] Re: Abduction, not kidnapping but guessing
> >
> > Dear Ken,
> >
> > I thoroughly enjoyed your brief and CLEAR account of abduction,
> > deduction
> > and inference.  If  you have the time and interest  I would also
> love
> > for
> > you to give a brief account of Peirce's categories and indicate how
> > they tie
> > in with these forms of reasoning.
> >
> > BTW,  I read your HIS GLASSY ESSENCE   and found it a delight.  What
> I
> > liked
> > most about it was that Peirce's ideas (often in his own words) were
> > selected
> > and organized in way that assisted me in following their natural
> > (historical
> > and logical) development.  And you did not preach at me but instead
> > concentrated on presenting his ideas plainly, carefully and in
> context
> > so
> > that I could begin to understand them and draw my own conclusions as
> > to
> > their significance.   The love and respect you have for your topic
> > shines
> > through and I think your book will be prized most by those share
> your
> > affection. A credit to your subject!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim Piat
> >
> > --
> > An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail>.
> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy>.
> --
> > An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail>.
> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy>.
> 
> --
> Kenneth L Ketner
> Paul Whitfield Horn Professor
> Institute for Studies in Pragmaticism
> Texas Tech University
> Lubbock, TX 79409-0002
> 806 742 3128
> Office email: b9oky AT ttacs.ttu.edu
> Home email: ketner AT arisbeassociates.com
> Office website: http://www.pragmaticism.net
> Personal website: http://www.wyttynys.net
> 
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail>.
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy>. --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy/hypermail>.
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at <http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy>.

-- 
Kenneth L Ketner
Paul Whitfield Horn Professor
Institute for Studies in Pragmaticism
Texas Tech University
Lubbock, TX 79409-0002
806 742 3128
                Office email: b9oky AT ttacs.ttu.edu
                Home email: ketner AT arisbeassociates.com
                                Office website: http://www.pragmaticism.net
                                Personal website: http://www.wyttynys.net