pcplantdb

[Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>]

hi Lawrence,

Did you respond to her - or invite her to join the pcplantdb list?

Wonderful reminder of the interest in and need for what we're attempting 
to accomplish...

peace
*s

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Today's Topics:

   1. [Fwd: [permaculture] Principles vs. techniques vs. data]
      (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
   2. Re: [pcplantdb Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5] (Stephanie Gerson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:01:08 -0700
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [pcplantdb] [Fwd: [permaculture] Principles vs. techniques
        vs. data]
To: pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <40859DA4.2090105@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [permaculture] Principles vs. techniques vs. data
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lisa MacIver <lisamaciver8@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>

Thanks for the discussion on the definition and scope of permaculture;
it is quite thought provoking.  I presume that I misunderstood the
response saying that "striving for understanding that is the first
indication of rigidity".

As an engineer, and the daughter and wife of engineers, I don't find
permaculture very like engineering.  However, at one time I was
involved with object-oriented software design, and that has parallels.

There's principles of permaculture, and when you combine that with
data you use various techniques to produce a design.  The principles,
which are value based, are distinct from the techniques of design.
The techniques, such as zones, are proven to work - but not necessarily

the only techniques which can work to produce a good design (as
evaluated against the principles).  To my mind, at least - this is
the key issue I'm troubled by.  However, I'd be fine if you'd
(collectively) say that "yes, other design techniques may work, but
this is a permaculture list, and we are here to discuss the
permaculture techniques"

<><>
<pcplantdb subscribers may be interested in this [LL]:>

Not to change the subject, but this does I think bring up what I can't
find, which is data, such as particular guilds that work well, and
better records of the input and outputs of (for example) sheep, and
(another example) on keeping poultry in orchards, what kind/stocking
rate/tree variety/s/tree protection works (ducks in the orchard were
not a sucess for me, though philosophically it sounded great).  Are
there resources with this type of information?
<><>

And again, thanks everyone.
Lisa in Ashland Oregon

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-- 
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:57:04 -0700
From: Stephanie Gerson <sgerson@stanfordalumni.org>
Subject: [pcplantdb] Re: [pcplantdb Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5]
To: <pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <965iDue6e2144S06.1082523424@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

howdy Chad,

Jim sounded very interested in our project.  I think it depends on how 
concrete our ideas are, and if we have (as a group) all the skills 
necessary to pull this off.  Jim was getting into some technical details 
- but I think a main concern for him, and for all of us, is how to create 
a more workable Wiki-style app that truly allows for effective user input 
and collaboration.  Also, I don't know how we compare to other projects 
the foundation is considering.  But I definitely think we have a chance!  
(Can't really give you a number, though.)

To give you a time frame, Threshold decides in June (I believe), and 
funds are dispersed shortly afterwards.  The Whole Systems Foundation was 
also very interested, but their next proposal date is not until October.  
I am also thinking of applying to the Lindbergh Foundation (http://
www.lindberghfoundation.org/grants/, please check it out), but funds 
wouldn't be dispersed until next June.  And then there's the Pew 
Foundation.  Somewhat difficult to coordinate funds when foundations have 
different deadlines...

Anyways....be optimistic!

peace (and yes, rain would be nice)
*Stephanie  

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Threshold, etc. (Chad Knepp)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:31:24 -0500
From: Chad Knepp <pyg@galatea.org>
Subject: [pcplantdb] Re: Threshold, etc.
To: pcplantdb@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <16517.16972.235902.877451@elly.galatea.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Here in the midwest USA it is finally spring and spending time in
front of a computer has not been a priority of late, esp. when
contrasted with the opportunity to immerse myself in the natural
world.

Anyway, I have not heard from Jim, but would be interested in
corresponding with him if would improve our chances.

Speaking of chances, Stephanie, can you give an estimation as to what
you think our chance of getting funding from the Threshold Foundation
is?  My own estimate was initially quite low, but now I am more
optimistic.  A wild guess is all I'm asking for.  My other question
for Stephanie is if we receive this funding when would the work
officially start.  Having this information would be very helpful in
evaluating other work opportunities.  Working on this project is by
far the most exciting thing currently possible, but there are some
other projects I'm tempted to commit to that may create scheduling
conflicts.

Rain (if that's what you need),
Chad


------------------------------

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End of pcplantdb Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5
****************************************




+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


____________________________________________________________________
   



------------------------------

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End of pcplantdb Digest, Vol 11, Issue 6
****************************************




+++++++++++++++
Stephanie Gerson
sgerson@stanfordalumni.org
(c) 415.871.5683


____________________________________________________________________