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  • From: Todd Walker <mtwalker AT imageray.net>
  • To: "durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com" <durham-county-beekeepers AT googlegroups.com>, "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] [Durham County Beekeepers] Re: Swarm catching gear...
  • Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:09:43 -0400

I wouldn't be concerned or surprised about supersedure with swarms. The
queen that leaves with the swarm is the old queen. She may be at the end
of her productive life.


~Todd

On 4/2/13 9:51 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:

>Jack,
>
>Right now, we're only talking about swarming, and specifically
>supercedure after catching a swarm. We're not talking about
>supercedure after installing packages (which I've heard is fairly
>common (> 40%) within 6 weeks), or in established colonies.
>
>Last year my modus operandi was to put a frame of brood in with a
>swarm on the advice of my bee mentors. I think the idea is that bees
>are loathe to leave brood. Add in a feeder, and leave them alone for
>a week, and it's pretty much the Ritz Carlton.
>
>I'm looking at my records here:
>
>3/22/12 Caught 2.5 lbs of bees; 4/13 open provisioned supercedure
>cell; 4/26 opened queen cells, no eggs/larvae present; (newspaper
>combined into different hive)
>
>4/26/12 (my yard): caught a runny swarm, hived it; 5/20 no eggs/queen
>present (newspaper combined into different hive)
>
>4/9/12 4.3 lbs of bees; 4/21 couple of huge supercedure cells; new queen
>fine
>
>6/19 1.5 lbs of bees with queen (I caged her); 6/27 no eggs, no
>larvae, no queen, bunch of queen cells; since it was June, I cut out
>cells and put into some mating nucs and made ~5 queens
>
>Do you have any advice about not getting a swarm to go into
>supercedure? This year I'm not going to put any open brood into
>swarms. They didn't abscond last year, so I'm not as worried about
>absconding.
>
>Best,
>Blair
>
>
>
>On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Bishop, Jack (NIH/NIEHS) [C]
><bishop AT niehs.nih.gov> wrote:
>> Not sure what we are talking about here. Too many issues presented at
>> once to grasp. Blair, perhaps we can divide these issues into "areas".
>> I'm not in favor of letting hive swarm (supercedure?), period. Methods
>>of
>> control are many.
>>
>>
>> On 4/1/13 10:14 AM, "Blair Christian" <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Honestly, I don't know. It has advantages and disadvantages depending
>>>on your goals. I'm fine with letting the bees take their time and
>>>make a great big fat queen cell. But if it's really my
>>>mismanagement, then I don't want to "waste" a good queen and resources
>>>if they don't have too. Last year I had been putting in a frame with
>>>some open brood. Perhaps that confused the swarms in some way? I
>>>might try some capped brood instead this year. I don't know enough
>>>about it/don't have big enough sample sizes to say anything
>>>definitive...
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>Blair
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Matthew Yearout <yearout AT gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> This may be a naive question, but is it a bad thing that the hive goes
>>>> directly into supersedure? I can see how it would put you back a few
>>>>weeks,
>>>> but the queen would be refreshed and there's a break in mite
>>>>production...
>>>> right?
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Blair Christian
>>>> <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The file folders were Lewis' idea. Sometimes it's too hard to get
>>>>>the
>>>>> box where you want it. You can use it as a dustpan to sweep bees off
>>>>> of flat surfaces, as a chute under a limb, etc. Not critical, but
>>>>> sometimes it's just what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chop sticks: I use them and/or the hive tool to poke through the
>>>>>bees.
>>>>> If you have a dry swarm, it can be pretty intimidating, but if you
>>>>> have a nice fresh swarm, you can poke through them for a few minutes
>>>>> to try to find the queen. It took me a looong time to get good at
>>>>> finding queens in a big mass of bees. I've done it 2 or 3 times in a
>>>>> 2.5 lb swarm. If they're on a flat surface (like a roof with asphalt
>>>>> shingles) it can be easier. I try to give it a shot. It takes a
>>>>> while to work your way up to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The original thought was that if I had the (a?) queen in a cage, the
>>>>> swarm would stay. I had a couple swarms go into supersedure, so I
>>>>>was
>>>>> wondering if I could somehow change that, maybe keeping 2 or 3 frames
>>>>> of mixed brood in there for a day or 2, and releasing her on day 2 or
>>>>> 3 or 4. Experiment in progress. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>>>>> By marking the queens when I get the swarm, I'm better able to tell
>>>>>if
>>>>> the colony did go into supersedure, and if they did, if the
>>>>> replacement queen is in there (since I started marking queens I have
>>>>> noticed several times where I was sure they were making a new queen
>>>>> but the same old marked queen was in there a month later).
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Marty Hanks <marty AT justbeenc.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>> > Blair,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Great info and pictures, but can you please explain the use of the
>>>>>file
>>>>> > folders and the chop sticks?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Are they for when you stop for Chinese on the way?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > marty
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Blair Christian
>>>>> > <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It's swarm catching time so I thought I'd share my gear to help
>>>>>out
>>>>> >> anybody new
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5860766260
>>>>>67
>>>>>9003249?authkey=CKfjnfSQ7Ii6YA
>>>>> >> Not pictured: a little bow saw sometimes comes in handy.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Some stats from last year:
>>>>> >> Swarm calls I answered: ~10
>>>>> >> Actual swarms retrieved: ~5
>>>>> >> Number that made it to last summer: 3
>>>>> >> Number that overwintered: 0
>>>>> >> Weights (lbs): 2.5, 2.5, 2.3, 4.3, 5
>>>>> >> Number of times I used a ladder: 7
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I had a number of "mini-swarms"-- less than 1 lb of bees + 1
>>>>>queen,
>>>>> >> which were not big enough to hive and I did various things with
>>>>>those
>>>>> >> queens, mostly gave them away.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>https://plus.google.com/photos/106022773068627809372/albums/5795590192
>>>>>52
>>>>>1436657
>>>>> >> I think they came from Dave (?) Frupnicht? He has maybe 20 hives
>>>>> >> about a mile from me, and might have some Russian bees.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> My hiving plans: I put them in an appropriate sized space (2.5 lbs
>>>>>or
>>>>> >> less bees into a 5 frame nuc; 2.5+ lbs of bees into a deep). I
>>>>>try
>>>>>to
>>>>> >> put a frame of mixed brood in, and at least a frame of drawn comb
>>>>>for
>>>>> >> the queen to lay, and plenty of undrawn comb. I put on a full top
>>>>> >> feeder and don't go near them for a week. I didn't have any
>>>>>abscond
>>>>> >> with that strategy last year. Some will go into supersedure
>>>>>almost
>>>>> >> immediately though.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Game on,
>>>>> >> Blair
>>>>> >> _________________________________________
>>>>> >> ocba mailing list | North Carolina Beekeeping|
>>>>>http://www.theocba.org/
>>>>> >> Manage Your Subscription:
>>>>> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/ocba/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Marty Hanks
>>>>> > Just Bee, Apiaries
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Home of the Orange County Honey Project.
>>>>> > "Created by Artisans....Bottled by Humans"
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>>
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