North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com>]

I'm not very scientific about how I do things. The results of my experiments are anecdotal and not controlled. Most of them are still ongoing.

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From: "dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com" <dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:34:04 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice



It would be interesting to see the results of your experiments.

 

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin Moore

To: North American Fruit Explorers

Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:11 PM

Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

I believe you are right about mycorhizal fungi not protecting trees from pathogens such as scab, etc. That is why I'm experimenting with endomorphic fungi which grow protective barriers around the individual plant cells. I believe this can protect trees from most common pathogens. I am not willing to intentionally introduce those pathogens to test this however. I do know that this group of fungi can confer heat resistance and drought resistance to plants that have been innoculated.

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From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:55:56 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

mycorhizal fungi should help protect the trees from soil born pathogens, and I suspect would have a bigger impact on small seedlings being attached by things like Pythium.  I don't think there is any evidence however that mycorhizal fungi do anything to protect against foliar pathogens such as scab and cedar apple rust.  They may help make the tree stronger so that those pathogens don't weaken it as readily but will do nothing to stop those infections.

 

Michae

 

Michael Dossett Corvallis, Oregon www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla@yahoo.com

--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo..com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice
To: dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com, "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 8:37 AM

I haven't experimented with the trees most Nafexers seem to grow. I'm too far south, but it seems to me that innoculating your trees with endomorphic and mycorhizal fungi should protect it from other fungi for their entire lives without the need for expensive fungicide sprays. The trees would be more resistant to environmental stresses and produce better.

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From: "dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com" <dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice



Alan,

 

The  protectants such as an EBDC or Captan are non-systemic and actually kill spores as they germinate before they have a chance to infect the plant.  They poison the metabolism of fungal cells at many levels.  Since they are multisite (multi-level) and fungi would have to develop multiple mutations to overcome them, resistance is unlikely.  So I go for the kill with the first spray since the leaves are just beginning to grow. At green tip, there isn't much leaf there to absorb a systemic spray like an SI. 

 

The Strobilurins (Flint/Sovran) have single-site mode of action and that makes them prone to resistance development.  With Sterol Inhibitors (Nova/Rally) that inhibit different points in the sterol synthesis pathway, resistance development tends to be more gradual, but is still possible none the less.  Since they are systemic, they will penetrate the leaf which gives them some "reach back" effect and I think are better used after 1/2" green.

 

Right now, Dithane is cheaper than Captan plus you shouldn't use Captan within 10 days of an oil spray.  We always have issues when we spray oil and try to follow-up with Captan due to the weather, so that is another reason I choose an EBDC for the first spray in the years we spray oil.  It gives me a bit more flexibility. 

 

Because of the resistance issues, I'm using an anti-resistant scab management program based on rotating different classes of fungicides.  Here's my timing breakdown:

 

GREEN TIP - 1 to 2 applications of an Captan or EBDC (Dithane)  at full rate

 

PREEBLOOM - 1 to 2 applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) or an EBDC or Captan or an EBDC & Captan (each at 1/2 rate)

 

PINK & BLOOM - 1 to 2 applications of an SI (Rally - Nova is now Rally) mixed with an EBDC or Captan (1/2 rate) or EBDC OR EBDC or Captan (full rate)

 

PETAL FALL, FIRST COVER - 1 to 2 applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) OR Captan (EBDC cannot be used after Bloom)

 

SUMMER - Classic protectant except an EBDC such as Captan or Pristine (carboxamide and a strobilurin)

 

I'm sure you know all of this, but I went into a bit more information for the benefit of those who are not aware of the differences between the various fungicide sprays.  I would be interested in knowing what approach you take in scab management. 

 

    

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com/
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/
http://www.revivalhymn.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Haigh

To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:26 AM

Subject: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

Dennis, your explanation of oil application was comprehensive and articulate- I made a copy for my files.  I have a question- why do you prefer using an EBDC over an SI in early spray?  I can't see the advantage to mancozeb over say, myclobutinil.

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