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  RESPONDING TO:From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
  [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]
  On Behalf Of pennbo@verizon.net
 Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 12:13 PM
 To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
 Subject: Re: [MSAR] Volunteers...mayhem???
 
 
 
 
 
 Can't speak for others, Karen, but I do not get paid. Not one tiny penny. For
  anything. If we're lucky we get lunch while deployed. Everything else-
  training, trailers, feed, vets, uniforms, etc - is on my dime. I do it
  because I want to give back to my community. Why are volunteers sometimes
  problematic? YOU tell the family that we didn't find their missing family
  member until it was too late because volunteers had messed up the tracks and
  we couldn't follow them, or they destroyed the scent so the dogs couldn't, or
  they'd gotten themselves into a dangerous situation so that our resources
  were spent extricating them instead of continuing the search. Are all volunteers
  bad? NO, but they should also know that they are not TRAINED to do the job
  and might want to ask what jobs they CAN do that would help.
 
 I wouldn't want an untrained volunteer doing surgery on a family member- and
  often searching for a missing person requires almost as much skill.
 
 Chris
 
  Chris, no, I said the establishment screwed up because
  THEY did not respond to that search on time.  It was not general
  convesation of searchin. IN that search They failed to have in their
  books what met the circumstance.  Could that have been avoided.  I
  beleive YES.   
   I absolutely did not say it was any volunteer that
  messed up. The establishment (authorities) could not cut through
  all the BS red tape when applying their manpower due to pomp and circumstance..
  or another words regulations. They were the ones that lost valuable time
  and none showed in the actual searching while the family members had to
  cross the border to do their own job that the foreign government
  could not do for them and the American government could not get
  invloved in because it was not their turf.  It was the missing persons
  family that searched and  found the body on foreign soil... again 
  No mention was made that it was the volunteers screwing up they did the only
  right thing they could and they did not mess up, not by any means.... 
  Repeating this was not a search in the US. And no way did those 
  "untrained" or unskilled mess up. 
  Just how many volunteers  or professional or paid or
  otherwise do you  know have a readily available passport?  Back
  then, all any US citizen needed was a flipping birthcertificate to
  go over the border, but today, that has changed and going just crossing
  the border is a several hour experience in some cases. And the authorities
  do not cross borders. Hello, theres a line in that sand.  What was
  screwed up on the other side in authority then, was that this was a foreigner
  in their country and their books and regulations showed no plan and
  they did not know how to handle that.  So the only thing to do was
  that the volunteer searchers.. in this case the family of the lost had to
  beat the bush until they found their son.  The matters of insurance were
  null and void.. Reverse it.. if it was a foreigner in this country.. let me
  ask, how many in authority can plow through the red tape especially if you
  have no clue of what that red tape is? 
  Malpractice.. hmmm, thats alive and well in all fields. 
  You said also, and I qoute.. with that I meaning you..."I wouldn't want an untrained volunteer doing surgery on a family
  member- and often searching for a missing person requires almost as much
  skill. "
 
  What I beleive you are saying is that you want to see a
  certificate that says that person has a skill?  Where does it say such a
  paperwork means experience?  Yes, people can be trained in say CPR..
  they blew on a rubber doll got a paper at the Y, but that does not show they
  have experience.  And here again, I was not talking about regulated
  volunteers, which it appears to me you would be since you say when you
  get  "deployed".  The very word
  "deployed" is military.  And regulated.  No, that
  was not the kind of voluntees I was talking about. 
  ANd by the
  way... Malpractice in the medical profession is alive and well.. so your
  point?   
  I would not
  want a sureon operating on me and leaving his tools in me either, but do you
  know, that in  many cases THAT is not malpractice?? 
  Going 
  down teh pipe here.. Some smart surgeons are not going to volunteer or even
  go on a search no less on horseback for fear of messing up their
  valuable hands of experience by handling a horse.  I do not think
  you are to likely to get a highly skilled surgeon to come ride a horse and
  search.  You might get a medic, but a highly skilled surgeon is not
  likely gonna leave the operating room.  
  And yes, I know you were using what you said as an
  analogy.. to say better to have the skilled than the unskilled.. however..
  you also did not comprehend what Dick caught in the earlier posts.  We
  were not talking about those regulated volunteers.  Ya'll went down your
  own path with that. 
  I still say, if the authorities are not prepared to
  handle a volunteer, they are not fully prepared.   
  Anyone with half a head that realizes he/she  are not "skilled"
  to do something is gonna sing out to someone who can.   And
  isnt a pony express runner then important when you got a lot of ground to
  cover to contact someone in command and you might be in a dead area and the
  flipping cell phone/handheld PC/gps does not work.  Like I said..
  if you have so many volunteers showing up and you dont know how to use
  them  that is something  you can explain how your team messed up to
  the victims family.  and That to me is being unprepared. 
  Dick, once again.. he got it right, he caught it
  quick  Guess he's been around long enough to know.   
  Well like Dick said.. enough already.  :-) 
  Lastly, when anyone say "job" (reread your
  post above, you used that word..) 
    people will emmediately equate it to PAY.  If
  you meant assignment.. then say so.. then  
  others hoping in on a discussion that has been going on
  for a few days might get the right jist and get the wrong idea. 
  Volunteers dont  do "jobs", they accept
  assignments or they react.  Well at least the ones I know go that
  route.  If your talking job, PAY ME.  But I am not a paid volunteer
  either.  Its my shirt, my back.. my horse, my tools, my life, my
  choice.  
  So, I said to Dick.. , do all volunteers expect
  a pop machine behind a tree when we volunteer?  Not likely.  Dont
  even want a pat on the back.. That is not why we volunteer . 
    We are not chasing ambulances.  But some of us
  damn well expect one to come if there is a need.  Meanwhile, we do what
  we can for a victim while we wait and wait and wait sometimes for an
  authority to get their act together to turn a key on their bubble gums and
  get their sixes here where we need them.  Like Dick said, they are not
  in control... they are not even the first responder.. Hello...and for some
  reason.. Dick, if youre reading.. I still dont think some are gonna get
  it ! 
  And BTW, I dont get paid either, my accountant does not
  deduct any of my horse or equipment etc off but I sure as "H" get
  taxed to death when it comes to doing it.   Gas tax, travel, loss
  of equipment donated to victims for their use and enjoyment..the extra gas
  tax for going out of my way to get someone where they gotta go then
  replacing same.. etc.   
  the time I dont get paid for to enjoy my horse on just a
  simple joy ride... 
  And when my accountant starts deducting it I'm gonna can
  her six and get a new authority. 
  
  
  
  
  
        
  Karen Nesbitt -  
   The Lord loveth a chearful giver....but the
  government says not all deductions are viable. 
                                             
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