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  • From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
  • To: MSAR <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>, "Mounted search and rescue in Illinois USA." <msar-il@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [MSAR] Viruses and Compost and back to rabies...
  • Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:55:56 -0700 (PDT)

In RESPONSE TO:

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 19:26:02 -0600
From: Una Smith <una.smith@att.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Cutting horse dies of rabies...
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20110413012602.GA29124@att.net" rel=nofollow target=_blank>20110413012602.GA29124@att.net>
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> just what does one do with manure form an animal that has a
> contageous disease?

Compost.


> what do you do with the carcass?

Render, incinerate, or bury.  Preferably in a licensed facility.

    Una Smith
    New Mexico


        Karen
 
-------------->>
 
Una and all,
Been awhile since I had the itch to preach!  
Can of worms here!  And some people actually compost dead carcasses.  And others have no clue as to how to or even how to bury.  Some people have limited access to vetrinary. And worse yet, no less a licensed facility.
Used to be we did not have the problems of manure and carcass  management as there is today.  People did not use wormers or pesticides or herbicides years back and when dung was truly dung not the proverbial brew some can be.  Euthanising was not done by chemicals that tainted the ground...
Unfortunately composting may be VERY inadequate against certain viruses and many people do not even know how to compost properly nor do they have the facility to handle such on their own. Some people literally have no clue as how to manage their dung. Some people have the erroneous idea that a manure pile is a compost pile and when nothing can be further from the truth. 
All a manure pile is is a  potentially septic disease/parasite carrying pile of dung that if not managed properly and you can tell the ones that are not managed properly because they are unsightly, often times huge,ful;l of weeds, unkept, messily spralled, often located poorly,  and will also be a source of drainage issues, odor and or blow dust when too dry.  Inorder for a manure pile to be a compost pile certain ingredients need to be present along with heat and moisture otherwise its just crap.  Let me ask, when the last time a horseman stuck a thermometer in their dung pile to see if it was "composting"?  When sthe last time you turned the pile over, whens the last time you added "green matter" to get it "cooking"?  And when you bust into it what does it smell like?  If its true compost it does not have that septic oder.. etc.
Stockpiling years of accumulated manure on a "cold" pile only harbors a place for  a breeding ground of vermine, septicness, odor, pestilance, unsightlyness and numerous other things that really add up to mismanagement of not only it not being compost, but just pure mismanagement from taking care of your bugs and such.  And can continue to keep diseases within a farm making the farm nothing but a sickness breeding ground, say none the less rendering the farm a pig stye.. 
Mis-managed "hot" piles can be a potential fire hazard as well.  Say none  the less for the debris that can blow from them if it is dry and that can get into lungs.   Say none the least for the ground water pollution and potential for e coli and concentrate of nitrates and farm chemicals.   Ecoli, botulism.. hmm two real nasty killers that people think are colic and tell you , oh he had a belly ache and colicked, but the farm remains a breeding ground for those two nastys like nothing ever happened as stupid owners think oh it was colic and the soil harbors the sickness for a very long long time. And if your feedng grain.. the grain will go through the horse, ferment on the pile and be a problem.   And hello, bored horses looknig for something to mess with often eat their grain filled dung and the dirt in those pens that carry the ecoli or botulism and what a cruel way to die.
As  for composting it.. lets get serious, those composting it generally use it, and those in the know want it done right.  That pile of "black gold" as some refer to compost as can also be fools gold.  The stuff is can be a double edged knife.
One should be aware that some viruses still can linger in the compost so if you are getting composted manure from an outside source, you could be importing trouble.  Trouble coming in the form of strangles or other virals or other miladies such herbicides rendering the composted manure inaffective for growing plants in a garden and also not organic to the organic gardener and they also do not want wormicides or pesticides or herbicides that have residual layover in the poo they are putting on their organic food gardens either and especially if they certify their veggies.  A lot of back yard gardeners are oblivious to the chemicals that can lurk in horse manure today and sadly they are miffed into thinking that its sterile and again, nothing can be further from the truth.  And to say the least for the load of weeds that can come.  A lot of backyard horsemen can be dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to handling their poo then pawn it off on some unsuspecting neighbor for free.  Composting with horse manure today is not like it was years back and people are just now waking up to this.  They wonder why there commercial compost does not work too and its all in the chemicalmake up of what used to not be there when horseman did not worm or fly spray or such and thus.
If its not done right, this is why for instance some farms chronically have cases of strangles.  The guy giving it away has no clue and neither does the guy taking it in and when both have horses and swap "spit" in the dung.. Houston, those guys have a  chronic problem times 2 since one just spread it over to another.  Its kind of like the nervy neighbor that has a sick horse and his idea of isolation is putting it in the back forty on his NEIGHBORS fence line  near the neighbors stock and not in the barn where it belongs to care for it..  Really quaint isnt it.  Well ignorance is bliss until the stuff hits the fan and neighboring farms can be a chronic viral warpath due to this.  It never ends.
When asking the EPA their solution to get rid of  ei: strangles, I was told that that manure would have to be hualed out and taken to a BIO incinerater to properly manage it.   On site burning woudlnot be allowed.
 Strangles is not the only milady that needs to be incinerated and people think burning their own waste is proper when that too may also be the furthest thing from the truth. Strangles gets into the soil and stays.    .. now who you gonna call?  EPA has a wonderous list of virus trouble makers and special ways the manure needs or should be handled, but do people call to find out?  Noo, they think  they can do anything they want to because they live in the country...including spread a disease...now how stupid and ignorant is that.
In  some areas, calling the local health department is not the answer either.. some only tell you to get the water tested.. hello.. that dont tell you what virus it harbors, it will tells you ecoli, heavy metal, calcium, phosperous and nitrate or possibly other pollution rendering water drinkable or not.  But you have to be savy enough to ask for specific types of tests if there is a suspect  otherwise just sending it to a lab totest the water ends up they dont test it thorough or specific for such.
Irv said, local ordinances will say but  HELLO - >>going by a local ordinance of just how to handle manure, the locals are assuming its "clean"  They will not alwaystell you  how to handle what may be a threatening BIO HAZARD could be foolhardy and is erroneous.  A BIO HAZARD is just that and requires special handling, special permits and licensed people. EPA said strangles was a bio-hazard... Main places on the other hand consider it as waste and thus it is still a BIO HAZARD, but what class and treatment... .  Ergo definitions technicalities.  hello, Japan.
And dont forget, in cleaning, people  are lax in areas such as pens that house livestock and when a virus exists, those soils should not be overlooked.  They should not go overlooked in any management period.  Those  areas also should be stripped of manure and sanatized.   Leaving the dung in there also causes a breeding ground for disease and flies,swill and septic muck and algea that muds up drainage in the wet and when it is dry and blowing can harm livestock and peoples lungs.  Apparently this is another area that some people are obvlious to too and that some people  have no regard for their neighbors or how the disease can spread..or do they and perhaps they just cont care.  Seems some people can be downright smart or adamant about it about it and not care and reack havock and abuse. There again, it all boils down to proper management.
Get rid of the manure properly and you will lessen not only your probability of pestilance, vermine and swill, but you will cut down your sickness in not only your animals but make it a healthier environment for humans as well. 
Why anyone would not want to clean their pens, stalls and be a perpetual harbor to a swill pit is beyond me.  While I will admit, that there are times of the year where it is impossible to clean on some facilties, that should not be any excuse not to not clean the rest of the year.  Keeping the place clean should be priorty in keeping the livestock healthy and keep one from being a burden nuisance to any neighbors.  I have seen and heard of peopel using manure for ammending their arenas and such, but hello, you have a health hazard in breathing that dust no less it could still harbor a disease.  Respitory and eye and ear infections are no fun for anyone. 
Now, getting back to the original start of this discussion, it was because of a rabid  cutting horse  that competed while being a host to the disease.  Those unfamiliar with rabies...the incident was preventable.  Truly not a good way to eliminate the competition either, however unintended.  If the horse was so valuable..it should have been vaccinated.  I have not run across much in the specifics of handling or cleaningup after rabies.. other than wash your hands thoroughly. As for the disposal of such manure.. there was nothing I could find.
 For more on the disease go here....
It also befuddles me when people report on such things and then they give a list of animals that rabies can affect.  Hello, folks, bottomline is if its rabid, and if your  mammal,  you are subject to get rabies if exposed.   Listing a list of only a few mammal animals only prompts the public to not consider the ones not listed that are also subject and may have got away.  Granted even rabies is not something that is always vacinated for with livestock,  anyone traveling from one place to another with his horse should.  There is approximately a ten day incubation period proir to the rabies virus showing clinical symptoms.  However if you read the article above you will be alarmed at what they say.
If you are showing symptoms, you are in serious trouble and rabies has syptoms of other illnesses....as you will read if you click the above addie.  
Lastly, while many states have problems with rabies, many states do not have cases and therefore many companion livestock go unprotected, but all states require dogs to be vaccinated.   Amazes me why cats are left unchained and on the prowl and also unvaccinated.  A cat bite or scratch is the most infectious injury one can get with or without rabies. A cats mouth is pretty filthy and by virtue of its specific punture wounds makes healing difficult...
 My close encounters with a possible rabies was from a bite from of all things a  domestic rabbit.. and never have I seen RABBIT listed by any reporter when they start listing species that can carry the disease. Obviously,  I was lucky, the rabbit was ok.
Well, for what its worth, my 2c.
Karen Nesbitt - VMSAR - Iroquois County, Illinois.
PS - On a lighter note...my retired MSAR mount is still kicking up her heels and celebrated her legal papered  31st birthday this week!   Guess we can lovingly  say the old girl is older than dirt.  In humane years she equates to a young age  of 93!  We have been fortuneate and blessed!
Whoo hoo!.
Ya'll have a great day!  
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