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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: "IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN" <ilichten1@verizon.net>
  • To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Hello, MSAR bombproofing
  • Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:59:35 -0500

You missed the point—we work in areas that are NOT closed to the public while we are training or searching.  Many of our parks’ boundaries are commuter railroads, multi-lane interstates, or townhouses.  A 1200 acre state park where only about 500 acres is available to the public might sustain 10,000 visitors a day, with their personal guard dogs off leash. This state park shares boundaries with a community college, a middle school, and a high school, as well as 4-5 boarding and training barns.   The Wissahickon Valley sees so many city dwellers per day along a stretch of road that is about 6 miles long that you can’t get a walking space.

 

What we were discussing was how to develop the communication necessary between you and your mount, the trust needed, and the protection you provide each other.

Parades, crook chasing, crowd control, parking lot patrol is not SAR.  And each organization must train for its environment.  Nobody closes a park down for us.  Most event permits specifically require that sponsors of the event accommodate other users during fundraisers or exercises. 

 

We did one job in Valley Forge National Historical Park where an infant kidnap victim had been recovered by a commuter and another (the mother) was missing.  The only differences in the park were some unmarked sedans in the nearby parking areas and the local high school cross country team was escorted by an unmarked van with the SWAT team aboard instead of the usual trainers. The park was open to the public, the roads were open, and a lot of civilians were looking for the second victim: mounted, dogs, fire companies, co-workers. The park is concurrent jurisdiction with the NPS/FBI; 2 townships, 2 counties, the Commonwealth, several fire and EMS agencies, lots of private inholders, and various highway departments. And it covered around 9400 acres at the time, only several hundred of which were of interest.  The second victim was recovered alongside an interstate that separated the park from one of the largest shopping malls in the East, and a two hotel convention facility.    

 

We each do it differently.  But we get it done.

 

Irv Lichtenstein

SE PA SAR

 


From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of emboote@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:17 AM
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Hello, MSAR bombproofing

 

Sorry, Irv. I disagree. 

 

Often MSAR units work in the field with K9 dogs. And I used to ride with a Border Collie at our side. In both instances, I noticed the horse and dog communicating and watching each other. The experience was far greater than if I was just out on a horse. Dogs are part of the environment and should be something the horse cues on, but doesn't run away from. 

 

Gunshots can also mean fireworks, backfires, balloons popping, loud radios, or other sensory experiences we come across in our security patrol work. I don't need a horse  'making a hole' to get me out of a crowd. Both of these examples are areas that I work with horses so they are safe when working. 

 

I ride in Minnesota, SD, ND, Wyoming, Montana, so I experience a wide variety of areas...from pastures to the Rockies

 

Emily

 

-----Original Message-----
From: IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN <ilichten1@verizon.net>
To: 'Mounted search and rescue' <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Hello, MSAR bombproofing

These clinics are sold as bombproofing or desensitizing or sometimes even “mounted training”.  What a MSAR rider has to have is a concept of partnership with the horse.

My mount of over 20 years still doesn’t like certain sights on the trail- plastic stackable lawn chairs (white against black) came up once.  Dead bodies, even deer, get him upset.  But it doesn’t stop the mission.  Your job is to detect clues—whether the subject went that way or proof that he didn’t.  It also requires you to get back alive to report in detail what you found or didn’t find.

A horse whose first reaction is to run/spook/spin/ buck when he sees something new is not useful on the real deal.  There may be some things you want him to be afraid of: shotgun blasts for instance, and others he should tolerate but be alert for: bicycles, vehicles, aircraft.  And lastly there should be those things that should scare both of you: men with guns pointed at you, loose dogs/wolves/coyotes, normally nocturnal animals about during the day.

This will vary with the horse and rider but you must be able to communicate with your mount, there should be mutual trust, and you mount should have enough brains left to protect himself and you.  Too many times owners want their horse despooked for a nice pleasant ride in the park.  Buy an experienced hack horse, they even know when to turn around and come home.  Do this to your own bright, alert mount and you teach him that it is all right to be eaten by that loose dog coming up behind.

 

Most of the clinicians who work this area are ex-mounted city police desensers who think the best horse is one that will look down the muzzle of a gun and charge.  Personally, there is one thing I am afraid of, poachers.  They shoot deer for meat and sale and face some really stiff penalties for getting caught.  If I am in a park after dark and guns start going off, I am out of there as fast as my mount can carry me. 

 

Read the concept papers concerning partnering with your mount in the archives.

 

Irv Lichtenstein

SE PA SAR

 

 

 


From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T'mi Finkle
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:20 PM
To: 'Mounted search and rescue'
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Hello, MSAR

 

Chris, I agree 100% with you about the terminology. Words such as bomb proofing and desensitizing are used by equine clinicians to promote their clinics, which can be confusing and/or sometimes misleading to the average rider.

 

T’mi    

TROTSAR

 


From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pennbo@verizon.net
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:09 PM
To: msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Hello, MSAR

 

Interesting discussion. However I wouldn't call it desensitized- as that usually means doesn't react at all. Instead I think a better terminology would be to say they are experienced or trained to accept varying situations. Mine aren't desensitized-  they DO react to different stimuli- but in an acceptable manner as reinforced by me during their training. :-)

Chris

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