Mounted search and rescue

[Louis <trlrider2@trailriding-texas.us>]

First, I apologize to the rest of this group for the conversation as it
stands!  Maybe some can learn something, some will not!  


Irv,

I am really disappointed in several statements in this post!  And your
insult in the last paragraph, well, really does not deserve a reply!

Your misunderstanding of Amateur radio, and its capabilities are
severely backdated.  As well as a few other issues in this post!

It appears, while we may be in the same church, we certainly are not
reading from the same Bible!

Your continued reference to SAR as being a commercial activity, when
referencing GMRS is confusing!  The majority of SAR/MSAR organizations
formal or informal are volunteers, paying for everything they do, and
most do not/will not except compensation, except in extreme cases!

The misunderstanding you have of Amateur Radio Licensing, equipment and
operations, is indeed your loss!  By embracing the Amateur community,
you would, in most cases, increase your volunteer base, and have greater
abilities to serve your community.

There was recently an incident in California, were supposedly hardened
and redundant systems were taken down and made useless by a simple act
of domestic terrorism, land lines, cellphones and digital radio
communications were gone, the same can be done to those million dollar
systems you are speaking of!  Funny thing about the incident in
California, within minutes,  some very dedicated Amateur Radio operators
made themselves available, and provided 911 communications links for the
community, while the multi-million dollar system was repaired!  The
other funny thing, is a neighboring community in California was
attempting to limit Amateur Radio operators ability to put up adequate
antenna's, that action has pretty much died out!

This little 10 watt repeater sitting at my feet, that can be deployed
quickly and easily, and operate completely independent of any power grid
for days on end, can cover at minimum a 30 mile radius!  This one little
machine can easily handle most search grids! It's twin, has the same
ability, just in a different part of the band!

As far as control operators, there is nothing magical or scientific
about that, in fact, the simple fact of having an Amateur license, and
excepting the responsibility to monitor the system for wrong doing, is
about it!  Most of our repeaters have multiple control ops, that are
available to monitor at various time of day or night!  

Training in Amateur Radio, again, nothing magical, one most take it upon
themselves to train for SAR/MSAR, and proper communications, regardless
of the mode, should be part of that training!

Standy power, well, not sure were your information comes from, but, that
again is independent of each individual repeater owner!  Most, that
commit the time and resources to make their equipment available during
emergency's and disasters, do have and maintain adequate back-up power,
to make sure that their equipment will be operational during a call up!

Licensing, the youngest ham that I am currently aware of is 6 years old,
and the oldest is in his 90's!  If a six year old can pass the test, oh
by the way, the 6 year old is actually a General Class, the second level
of testing, I am sure you, and any of your team could also pass it!  In
doing so, would be increasing your capabilities and value to the
community greatly! If all of your team members became licensed, then
there would not be availability issues, and again, you would in all
reality, have a larger base of volunteers!

Amateur Radio equipment, there is plenty out there, from the tiniest HT
to the grandest of base stations for purpose built Amateur gear!  Most
retired commercial and public service equipment can easily and legally
reprogrammed to operate in the Amateur bands!  Both of my repeaters are
built from retired public service radios!

As far as studying, in relation to your insult!  I do, and on a regular
basis!  I also keep up with the fact, that even the US Government, has
in the past and to this day, recognized the importance of Amateur radio
to this country, thus, we know our value, and we train constantly, to
make sure we are available to assist, regardless of who calls asking for
assistance during an emergency!

Each organization has a tool chest of knowledge, ability, and expertise!
If you only have one tool in your chest, you are not very useful!  Fill
your tool chest with every available tool possible, and your usefulness
will never be underestimated!

I know, this started out as a GMRS discussion, but all the above
applies, the only difference is that GMRS license cost money, last check
it was $80.00. With the exception of a small test fee, usually $12.00 -
$14.00, depending on the team doing the testing, a Amateur license is
free, is good for 10 years, and opens a person up to the world!

Anyway, whether you want to agree or not, those are the facts,
simplified, but they are the facts!

Have a great evening!

Louis Upton


On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 12:33 -0400, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN wrote:
> Read what I wrote--NGO SAR is mostly highband simplex around here (155.160,
> 155.265, a mobile only input channel repeatered out on either 160 or 265,
> and DCNR channels mostly).  Most agencies that were large area coverage are
> still highband and some are still as low as 33MHz. 
> 
> Amateur repeaters, 6M, 10M, 2M, and UHF typically lack standby power at
> fixed sites other than government buildings or commercial radio sites. And
> require a suitably licensed control operator(s). Before 800 came in the
> local 450-512 police repeaters all lacked long term emergency power.  A
> trunk is extremely complex to build and manage. Each county in the 5 county
> region uses a different system-- Philadelphia and Montgomery use Motorola
> 800 digital simulcast that differ only in software release.  Bucks use a
> 500MHz analog voice system, Delaware uses a 500 MHz conventional system
> (with some 45MHz fire still) and Chester uses ELTR at 800MHz. Each of these
> systems is elaborately backed up and made redundant and load shedding to
> support police, fire, and EMS operations on a daily basis. And most cost in
> excess of $20 Million to build the fixed sites. Paging or alerting is on
> different systems with some counties using simulcast alphanumeric, tone and
> voice, open voice and RSAN as redundant systems. Local government operations
> (streets, highways, trash, water and sewer) are for the most part on private
> systems. Yes, our county tower sites have an on site Diesel power pack while
> the commercial cellular equipment does not. We have a backup PSAP and
> several other sites where 9-1-1 can be answered. Because the NFPA wants
> every firefighter to have a portable radio there are lots of portables
> available in the region for each system. Local fire companies have spent a
> fortune to comply with this rule, especially those along county borders
> where multiple radios are needed. And many still maintain the highband
> portables and licenses from before the trunk. The county would prefer we
> operate on their system so that we are integrated with other responder
> services and can be more easily supported by their field communications vans
> and repeaters. The problem is that many other agencies we work with are not
> 800 systems or may be not compatible with the county.  
> 
> Yesterday (8-02) the Bucks County fire system went down.  Unlike the others
> in the area which have backups they don't and lost alerting for several
> hours. 
> 
> An individual, whether a natural person or a corporation, can license almost
> anywhere except GMRS where natural persons are the only eligibles for new
> licenses/ major modification since 1987. Shared access repeaters in GMRS are
> difficult to manage with each user having to license the site and the
> control operator having to make sure no commercial use is made of the site.
> And one member of a group can take on the license and operation of a GMRS
> repeater, so long as he pays for it since you cannot charge to access a
> non-commercial site. Since 1987 GMRS has been limited to family recreational
> use.    
> 
> 
> We don't use amateur equipment because of licensing and availability issues.
> 
> We don't use trunk 800 in the field usually because we can't afford it or
> the agency we are supporting doesn't use it. GMRS does not cover, even in
> our urban areas, and while Nextel is available the service isn't worth the
> cost.
> 
> If you want to study public safety communications go to APCO International,
> the association of public safety communicators.  There are many articles in
> their archives concerning disaster survivability, redundancy, and features
> needed in current public safety systems.  But you have to read what is
> written carefully because proper English is used, not texting speech (which
> dates back to the telegraph where saving letters was important in terms of
> keystrokes). 
> 
> Irv Lichtenstein 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Louis
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:20 AM
> To: Mounted search and rescue
> Subject: Re: [MSAR] Radios
> 
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