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  • From: Todd Lister <toddlister1 AT gmail.com>
  • To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...
  • Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 22:40:45 -0400

Phil,
I didn't miss your point. I understand you are a proud and self-reliant guy who doesn't think people should get hand-outs. I agree. I've worked my whole life with the same attitude.
That said, Big Deal. So your a hard worker who spent your earnings improving your game. I've got thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools from 30+ years working as a builder and woodworker and NO ONE paid for any of them but me. My wife has a nice car and I have a nice truck that with some difficulty I paid for. The fact you worked for and paid for everything you have is not a novel thing. I just don't believe it is a logical justification for bashing this program. The way you articulated your disdain for gov and this program in particular is the reason I called you cynical. Sorry if I offended you but that is the way I see it.
I can only assume you know your farming methods and your bank balance and have no interest in learning anything from others or being part of society. Pride can be too strong sometimes. It is apparent you don't understand this program and I believe you would do well to open your mind a little.
1.What does someones age have to do with this conversation? 2.This program has made NO demands on me concerning how or what I grow or how I market it.
AND, "Dropped out of all farm programs so many years ago I can't remember what year it was, started making some money when I quit doing what they wanted me plant and all the rest of the  nonsense they wanted us to do for a few dollars.  The high tunnel program is just another program to control production and the farmer income, too many restrictions to live with, " This statement is totally out there. Maybe bitter is a better word than cynical.
 I may be relatively new to farming as a living but this is a good program that is helping a lot of people do a better job growing food and making a living at it. In the future, a lot more may very well learn a  great deal from it.  Those who did not get a house from the program can still gain from the research.
And just maybe some farmers who don't think buying a house would be worth it will hear what others are saying about the impact these things can have on their bottom line.
There is no doubt that a working farm can pay off a high tunnel in short order through increased production. I've learned it in the short time I've had mine. If I had to go back in time and could take this knowledge with me I would probably sign a note to get it..
Good luck with this winters crops in your eight houses.
Todd Lister
Vesta Ga




On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:53 PM, <SaladG AT aol.com> wrote:
I guess you missed the whole point, no one helped pay for any of our eight building, they have been built from the years of doing business. 
 
Phil from Iowa
 
In a message dated 9/7/2011 3:31:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, toddlister1 AT gmail.com writes:
Phil,
I gotta say you sound cynical as hell.  I can tell you right now that at 59 I have only been farming for under 5 years and I'm strictly organic and your perspective has little connection to today's program. I got a house and there are very few restrictions on this program and the ones there are have not caused me any grief or cost me any money. In fact my production went up considerably as has my income. I am aggressively growing food 12 months a year in my houses and have no overbearing guidelines from the NRCS.
The ONLY things they mandate in my area are things I'd do anyway. Erosion control and record keeping. I've read some posts that referred to a number of rules and regs that simply don't apply in my state
I can only speak about my experience but this program has the potential to help alot of farmers and has and that includes those who did not get one of these houses. I am cofident that when they eventually publish their findings that a lot of folks will consider HT growing to improve their bottom line.
The idea that a gov program is necessarily an imposition rings hollow for me.
Not sure how you cut profits 200%.
Todd Lister
Vesta Ga




On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 1:51 PM, <
SaladG AT aol.com> wrote:
I have to agree Carla, we started our high tunnel over 15 years ago and have not seen any money from programs to pay anything, because of the fact that we started farming in 1963 and most of the people that is getting the free tunnels were not even born then.  Dropped out of all farm programs so many years ago I can't remember what year it was, started making some money when I quit doing what they wanted me plant and all the rest of the  nonsense they wanted us to do for a few dollars.  The high tunnel program is just another program to control production and the farmer income, too many restrictions to live with,  if we only grew from the floor of the tunnel it would cut our profit by 200% per building.
 
Phil from Iowa
 
In a message dated 9/6/2011 9:55:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cjmaness AT juno.com writes:
Oh, I'm one of those who got so excited when I heard of this program, and then quickly got disgusted with it. We've been farming (for a living, not as a hobby) for 9 years now. We weren't even allowed to fill out the paper work. In Oklahoma you had to be certified organic - period.

I did hear that 11 "farms" in my county received funding for a high tunnel.  Since I attend the only farmers market in my county, and no one there has a new high tunnel it really makes me wonder where those 11 farms are at.

I'm so happy that I work so hard for so very little so that I can pay my taxes to buy high tunnels for ?????

Carla
Perkins, OK

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