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  • From: "Paul Bock" <bockpa AT plesh.com>
  • To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [Market-farming] RE: GMO Contamination of Organic Seed
  • Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:27:47 -0500

What exactly is the necessary distance to ensure pollen travel isn't an
issue? I don't think you can truly say that 100% of the crop is pure by
this standard.

If I remember right, the time it takes a certain object to fall out of a
stream of water is dependant on the size of the object and the speed of the
stream. That's why fast moving water only has large boulders, slower water
has all the gravel and the really slow spots get all the sediment and sand.
Of course you will have gravel behind a boulder, because the water is slower
behind the boulder and so the gravel is deposited there. I believe pollen
is very light compared to the wind. Maybe on a calm day you can expect that
the pollen only travels a mile or so, but what about during a storm, before
the rain falls, when the wind picks up to 50 miles per hour. I bet that
under those gusts a lot of pollen is released and travels very far. Some
may never fall out of the air at all. And what about insect travel?

I think a better idea would be to realize that even with the most careful
procedures you can never completely be sure that there is no pollen drift.
And when it happens it won't probably take over 80-100% of your crop. Just
a small percentage each year, like 1-5%. Maybe even less than one percent
each year. But you will replant your seed from this 1% contaminated corn
and plant it in your field again. Now you have 1 out of ever 100 plants in
your field with bad genes. I bet that second year will see a much faster
spread of the infection.

And what exactly would make an inspector think there might be a problem with
pollen drift? You can't look at the corn and tell the difference. You have
to do a gene test, or test for whatever the gene makes the corn do. It
isn't like round-up-ready corn is blue or something. Round-up ready corn
looks like any other corn, until you spray it with round-up of coarse.

The best idea is just not to spread the bad genes in the first place.

Just my 2 cents.

-----Original Message-----
From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of maureen
bostock
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:20 PM
To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [Market-farming] RE: GMO Contamination of Organic Seed


Certified organic growers are required to document all potential sources of
contamination or comingling with genetically modified crops - from ensuring
they are not planting within the pollen travel zone of neighbouring crops to
keeping transportation logs and clean-out records. If there is any question
of contamination, the inspector will require tissue/seed sampling to verify
that the seed is gmo-free. It would be interesting to see a study comparing
contamination in conventional vs. organic seed to see how effective the
monitoring is on organic field crop farms. Maureen


>From: market-farming-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>Reply-To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
>To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Market-farming Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:06:24 -0500 (EST)
>
>Send Market-farming mailing list submissions to
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. wasabi root (Blue Moon Farm)
> 2. Wasabi (adriana)
> 3. wasabi (Trish and Joe Useldinger)
> 4. Re:wasabi (Tom at Limerock)
> 5. Re: Re:wasabi (Willa C)
> 6. Fwd: Keeping Seeds Safe - NYT Editorial (Allan Balliett)
> 7. Re: Keeping Seeds Safe - NYT Editorial (Allan Balliett)
> 8. Re: Re:wasabi (Allan Balliett)
> 9. Peg Cook (Marie Kamphefner)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:31:47 -0500
>From: "Blue Moon Farm" <bluemoon AT iclub.org>
>Subject: [Market-farming] wasabi root
>To: <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <00a701c3fefa$bce35500$985ed844@bluemoon>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>You should google wasabi production ...I recently read an article, sorry I
>have no recollection where, about a company that was producing authentic
>wasabi root in, I believe, Washington State. Points that stand out in my
>memory are 1] that the entire facility was surrounded by inpenetrable
>fences and armed guards, and 2] anyone working there has to sign an
>iron-clad confidentiality agreement.
>Not to discourage you, but my impression was that wasabi is extremely
>finicky, reqiring much technological assistance to mimic "natural"
>conditions, and that those in possession of "how to" information are
>playing their cards close to their vests.
>Leo Keene
>Blue Moon Farm
>Sustainably Grown Garlic
>3585 Poosey Ridge Road
>Richmond, KY 40475
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>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:08:22 -0600
>From: "adriana" <gutierrez-lagatta AT charter.net>
>Subject: [Market-farming] Wasabi
>To: <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <000c01c3ff08$2a448260$0c02a8c0@yoursz6x6sefxo>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Yes,
>Wasabi can be grown hydroponically but yes, the cultural requirements are
>very particular. Those who are growing it commercially in the US (in
>Washington state) are keeping a tight lid on the growing methods due to
>piracy attempts by Japanese "tourists". There is a New Zealand grower
>will
>franchise his system but it will cost you at least $150,000 to get into it
>and 18 months+ to get the first crop. On top of that it would be good to
>have a greenhouse to grow it in. I can get you the information for the NZ
>grower if you want.
>\> I am having a discussion on another list about availablity of wasabi
>root.
> > The question is it possible to grow it in large amounts for processing
>(for
> > a non-food use)?
> > I thought this would be a good place to ask if it can be successfully
> > cultivated in large amounts. If anyone here is actually growing it
> > commerically, that info would be great too. How large is large? I'm not
> > sure but it would probably be several acres at least.
>
>Adriana
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:50:32 -0000
>From: "Trish and Joe Useldinger" <jeusel AT ix.netcom.com>
>Subject: [Market-farming] wasabi
>To: <Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <017201c3fedb$c46174c0$191256d1@mooch>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi all, I am a lurker on this list who appreciates all the good info you
>people gladly share. A few months ago I saw that the dept of Ag had Wasabi
>on it's list of alternative crops. Interested, I began research and found
>the two trains of thought; grow it near running water as it is done in
>Japan and or Hydroponicaly, and regular cultivation in soil. Either way I
>read that the plant is the same and only the wasabi purist who knows the
>source might be qualified to debate quality. I say this as it seems there
>are few sources of real wasabi in the U.S. to base a standard against.
>What the bulk of the restaurants serve is horseradish with a dye that they
>pass off as wasabi to the public who know no difference. I have had some
>of this before and I remember trying to suppress the urge to scream and
>bounce off the walls like a cartoon charachter from the burn [real wasabi
>is said to have a intense burn that quickly goes away to a pleasant
>flavor]. I visited a large asian mark
> et and spoke with the produce worker stocking a nicely sized fresh
>produce dept. when I asked about fresh wasabi I got a look from him as if
>I had asked for something wildly funny. he pointed me towards an aisle
>that had powdered wasabi. He did tell me it would be too expensive to
>bring in fresh. As Adriana said "the cultural requirements are
>particular" , but if the people in the pacific north west have managed to
>do it, then others can too, although They are fortunate to have ideal
>weather and growing conditions. You mention a non food source? Are you to
>use it in a cosmetic or such and not as a condiment? I see that the people
>now cultivating it dont really have large facilities. As this is to
>regulate demand and price or just a logistics issue related to propagation
>and leangth to maturity I realy dont know. As I said before, I am just a no
>body lurker, looking for a niche to enter into for growing a product as a
>one man operation. Wasabi looks like it has poten
> tial for a nice upside, unless it is turned into an equivilant of the
>Jojoba or ginseng frenzies of the past. There are no magic beans outside
>of the Jack and the beanstalk story, and I will keep up further research
>until such a time as I am sure that I will not be throwing hard earned
>money into a bad venture. I found a site for bulk foods that sells wasabi
>powder in bulk, asian stores sell powder, I have yet to hear of a fresh
>source, perhaps the time is come to venture into this market? please keep
>us apprised of what you find out!
>
>Joe
>No farm
>No Website
>Nobody!
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>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:22:19 -0500
>From: "Tom at Limerock" <limerock AT thirdplanet.net>
>Subject: [Market-farming] Re:wasabi
>To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <016d01c3ff9c$1b307f10$f526ced8@limerock>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Okay, after reading the past few posts on wasabi, you folks really got my
>curiosity up now! Just what are the growing conditions required for
>wasabi? We have been looking for a new challenge.
>
>Tom Anslow
>Limerock Orchards and Roadside Market
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:17:18 -0800
>From: "Willa C" <wilc AT farmers-market.com>
>Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Re:wasabi
>To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <007b01c3ffa0$4e4faac0$7d443f0a@g2h>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>see http://www.freshwasabi.com/
>They maybe able to help
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom at Limerock
> To: Market Farming
> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 4:22 AM
> Subject: [Market-farming] Re:wasabi
>
>
> Okay, after reading the past few posts on wasabi, you folks really got
>my curiosity up now! Just what are the growing conditions required for
>wasabi? We have been looking for a new challenge.
>
> Tom Anslow
> Limerock Orchards and Roadside Market
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:54:27 -0500
>From: Allan Balliett <igg AT igg.com>
>Subject: [Market-farming] Fwd: Keeping Seeds Safe - NYT Editorial
>To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <a06010201bc690cfff95d@[192.168.123.143]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> >Richard Kalin posted this to BD Now!
>
>
>
> >List-Subscribe: <http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow>,
> >
> >Keeping Seeds SafeNew York Times Editorial
> >
> >March 1, 2004
> >
> >Keeping Seeds Safe
> >
> >hen an American farmer gets ready to plant a crop like corn or soybeans,
>he
> >has two basic choices. Traditional seeds are the kind farmers have
>planted
> >throughout history, developed by crossing parents with desirable traits
>to
> >get a superior variety. Genetically modified seeds, first widely planted
>in
> >1996, contain trangenes from other organisms that convey specific
>advantages
> >to mature plants - the ability to resist herbicides, for instance. The
> >acreage planted with genetically modified crops has exploded: a third of
> >this country's corn by 2002 and three-quarters of its soybeans. Whatever
>you
> >make of this trend - and there are strong arguments on both sides - one
> >question it raises is whether genes from modified plants might somehow
>drift
> >into unmodified ones. The answer is yes.
> >
> >In a pioneering study released last week, the Union of Concerned
>Scientists
> >asked two independent labs to examine samples of traditional corn,
>soybean
> >and canola seeds. The labs found contamination in half the corn, half the
> >soybean and more than 80 percent of the canola varieties. The study draws
>no
> >conclusions about when the mingling took place. It could have happened
> >during field tests, after modified crops were widely planted or during
> >shipping and storage. But the genetic purity of at least some traditional
> >seed varieties has been compromised.
> >
> >This is a serious finding. Though the acreage planted with modified crops
>is
> >enormous, the number of varieties is still very small. But many more
> >modified varieties - many of them for industrial and pharmaceutical crops
>-
> >are being tested. The risk posed to the food supply by contamination from
> >pharmaceutical crops will almost certainly be much greater than it is
>from
> >genes that have migrated from, say, Roundup Ready corn. But there is a
> >broader point. To contaminate traditional varieties of crops is to
> >contaminate the genetic reservoir of plants on which humanity has
>depended
> >for most of its history. In 2001, for instance, scientists discovered
> >modified genes in traditional varieties of corn in Mexico, the ancestral
> >home of the crop and the site of its greatest diversity.
> >
> >The need now is for more extensive study, best undertaken by the
>Department
> >of Agriculture. It's also time to subject genetically modified crops to
>more
> >rigorous and more coherent testing. The scale of the experiment this
>country
> >is engaged in - and its potential effect on the environment, the food
>supply
> >and the purity of traditional seed stocks - demands vigilance on the same
> >scale.
> >
> >Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >BDNow mailing list
> >BDNow AT envirolink.org
> >You can unsubscribe or change your options at:
> >http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:56:50 -0500
>From: Allan Balliett <igg AT igg.com>
>Subject: [Market-farming] Re: Keeping Seeds Safe - NYT Editorial
>To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <a06010202bc690d3706a0@[192.168.123.143]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>Which brings up the question in my mind - - and I hope Rob and Shep
>will chime in here: how do we know that our organically certified
>seeds or our non-organic seed from non-GMO seed companies is free of
>GMOs in reality?
>
>Do organic or non-GMO seed merchants conduct any testing of the sort
>that Concerned Scientist's study was based on?
>
>Just asking, since, of course, we advertise our CSA as GMO-free.
>
>Thanks
>
>-Allan Balliett
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:01:26 -0500
>From: Allan Balliett <igg AT igg.com>
>Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Re:wasabi
>To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <a06010204bc690eb5607b@[192.168.123.143]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>There was an article on hydroponic wasabi in GROWERS EDGE an issue
>(or so) back. I never got a chance to read it. _Allan
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:09:49 -0600
>From: "Marie Kamphefner" <kampy AT grm.net>
>Subject: [Market-farming] Peg Cook
>To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <001001c3ffa7$a32ccf30$0f688bd8@your7x1ttcs5lk>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Regards to the list:
>
>Peg, if you see this, will you please contact me privately? I want to
>ask you about your soil testing service.
>
>Marie in Missouri
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
>End of Market-farming Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1
>*********************************************

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