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[machinist] 1" endmill ..... which tool holder to use? - Page 2
- From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
- To: machinist@lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: [machinist] 1" endmill ..... which tool holder to use? - Page 2
- Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 00:06:40 -0500
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/1-endmill-tool-holder-use-280035/index2.html
Thread: 1" endmill ..... which tool holder to use?
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I have used 1 1/4" holders in my Bridgeport and another knee mill with some success. Generally I don't use them for milling though. I use them for opening up a hole by plunging it before I run a boring bar into it.
The large over 1" holders are what give Bridgeport's a reputation as a noodle mill.
Big B -
Really?
Originally Posted by rklopp
Why torture the machine and yourself? I don't think an R8 spindle can ever use a 1" end mill without a huge sacrifice in stiffness. Besides, what R8 machine has the HP balls to push a 1" end mill effectively? If you need the width of cut, find a face mill or insert cutter body with built in R8 shank.
This is a 4" diameter counter sink, a 1" wide cut done in a single pass cranking the RT handle at a rapid rate. 602 XLO...wish I had the 40 taper model..... but a 1" mill is not an issue in this R8 machine. Only challenge was the shower of hot chips on my hand cranking the RT. I grant a 1" end mill isn't the daily choice, but they can readily work in a solid R8 machine.... and lets not forget, feed/speed/rpm and depth also factor into removal rate and hence required umph.
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Mild side cutting application. Dive it in 3/4" depth in the middle of a block of mild steel to make a 1 1/4"x 3/4" slot and report back.
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"The large over 1" holders are what give Bridgeport's a reputation as a noodle mill."
No being a flimsy device is what gives them that reputation. If they are all you have run, then they seem fine. Run a serious mill with no quill, geared head and geared powerfeed and you'll lose your patience with a Bridgeport from there on out. Biggest weak points are the small ram, the nod knuckle, the quill, and the small diameter spindle bearings due to the quill. -
I didn't argue its the mill for heavy hogging. it (XLO) can do the cut you described, sort of, but there are other machines for that....point is its not out of reason using a 1" cutter in a solid R8 machine Originally Posted by Mike C.
Mild side cutting application. Dive it in 3/4" depth in the middle of a block of mild steel to make a 1 1/4"x 3/4" slot and report back.
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I don't have any photos of me using them in my 1HP Bridgeport and haven't tried using them in my 2HP Alliant yet, but they do have their uses.
The main application for me is long-edge finish cuts to square up material. They do well for that, as I don't have any carbide insert tooling with that long of an edge and these don't flex the way a 1/2" HSS cutter with 2-1/2" length of cut would. -
Take that information and put it in stone. Originally Posted by Mike C.
"The large over 1" holders are what give Bridgeport's a reputation as a noodle mill."
No being a flimsy device is what gives them that reputation. If they are all you have run, then they seem fine. Run a serious mill with no quill, geared head and geared powerfeed and you'll lose your patience with a Bridgeport from there on out. Biggest weak points are the small ram, the nod knuckle, the quill, and the small diameter spindle bearings due to the quill.
If you are having the urge to get into that class of work you need to consider a larger mill. That type of cutting is going to play hell on a Bridgeport type machine. I might add they make a more rigid cut with tighter tolerances. -
I have r8 end mill holders for 1" and 1.25" so I can say they do exist. Mine are older. I picked the up second hand about a year ago. Originally Posted by borne2fly
My mill uses R8 collets, and it seems that the biggest those get is about 7/8". So for a 1" (or larger) endmill it looks like I need one of those holders with set screws. Does anyone have any recommendations for good quality R8 1" toolholders?
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02-12-2014, 08:39 PM #0
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People who aren't insane use an angle plate and put the work piece on it's side. Originally Posted by PixMan
The main application for me is long-edge finish cuts to square up material. They do well for that, as I don't have any carbide insert tooling with that long of an edge and these don't flex the way a 1/2" HSS cutter with 2-1/2" length of cut would. -
I'm not insane as far as I can tell. It's just nice to be able to throw a 2-1/2" thick slab of 6061 aluminum in the vise, take a skin cut on the top with a face mill then cut the end square without moving the piece or mounting a sn angle plate. I have plenty of those for when I really need them. Originally Posted by John Welden
People who aren't insane use an angle plate and put the work piece on it's side.
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02-13-2014, 12:12 AM #0
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Yeah but side milling doesn't make it square worth a shit.
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Square enough for me and my home shop applications, usually within less than .001" in it's length.
I realize that everything you do is super precision, done better than others would do and comes out perfect. I have lower standards and am happy enough. -
02-13-2014, 10:37 AM #33
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People who denegrate popular machine tools, imports, laud their own preferences as the apotheosis of all that is worthy, cite countries of origins, sneer at all not in comformance with their own preferences, etc make me wonder about how they conduct the balance of their lives.
There is no such thing as a universal machine tool. one that could machine a spill gate seat bar or locomotive frame as readily as it could make mechanical watch parts or machine mirrors for the Webb telescope. A good designer targets solving a particular problem while biulding in as much range, power, esthetics etc consistant with production in specific numbers to a specific price for a certain market segment. Many factors go into a successful design many which conflict. Increasing rigidity raises the price because of the larger proportions and mass of the strssed elements. Many other factors if emphasised increase the cost, reduce sensitivity, etc.
IOW a good design is the product of a balancing act. Say what you will about a turret mill (the Kleenex name for a turret mill is "Bridgeport") the original design spawed many imitators. Some try to use it as a jig borer some as a drill press. In fact it was originally designed as a lower end machine tool packing as much geometric versatility in a given weight and working envelope as possible. For example by extending and swinging the ram the spindle can be poised over the most of the table surface making access to large sized work pieces possilble within the table weight capacity. The milling head's qiull, power feed, tilt, and nod simplifies angular features eliminating the need to re-position the workpiece.
You get a lot of bang for the buck from a Bridgeport. It's what I have come to think of as an honest machine. It will do a lot of thicgs quite well but it is not a remover of heavy stock or inteded for weighty tale loads. It is what it is. There have been a number of successgul designs that live up the their desighers's expectations like the South Bend line of engine lathes, the Ford model T, the original Volksvagen, the hamburger, three phase AC power transmission, jeans, the list extends to artifacts that influence the whole of material culture. Yet all are not perfect or infinitely adaptable.
So sneer not. A sneer is an emotional response against that which excites our prejudices. We need prejudices and stereotypes etc because they greatly simplify day to day life. Without them we would have to evaluate every familiar situation encountered anew. OTH if carried too far one's responses can get very ugly.
In the course of my long career in the machinist's trade I've run on a productiuon basis machine tools that could in an afternoon mill away into chips the largest machine tools in the experience most of PM readers. You need an existential perspective when viewing the expances of uour trade. There is a line in Julius Caesar that I love to cite as an ilustration: "Forgive Britannius Caesar. He is a barbarian and thinks the customs of his tribe are the Laws of the Universe." I like particularly the irony of using the perjorative "barbarian" in the same sentence where the tragady of a narrow world view is illustrated. Irony at its best.
I call on those who sneer at Briggeports, import machine tools, close tolerances etc to remember all have their rightful places. If you have other preferences fine but try not to let your preferences solidify into open, sneering, contemptuous mechanical bigotry. -
That just made my day. A perfect capsule description of the posts on PM. Originally Posted by Forrest Addy
...I love to cite as an ilustration: "Forgive Britannius Caesar, He is a barbarian and thinks the customs of his tribe are the Law of the Universe."
I once worked in a shop that had a great many war surplus 1 and 1-1/4 end mills, bought for $1 per pound circa 1960. The straight shank ones got used with R8 adapters and the B&S taper shanks with tangs got turned down to half inch. Yes, that's right, into the soft part! You could hear those things chatter from anywhere in the building and nobody ever questioned it. I once discovered one in the tool crib with a severely bent shank but never witnessed it happen, thank God. Sure kept expecting it though--I kept mentally reviewing procedures for stopping the bleeding and treating shock.
Not that we do anything much on the BPs anymore, but frankly I don't think I'd let one of those adapters in this building. -
Perhaps so, but they could have picked better collets than R8s. Even the dismal Unimat I was forced to use for a short time had better ones. Originally Posted by Forrest Addy
People who denegrate popullar machine tools, imports, laud their own preferences as the apotheosis of all that is worhty, cite countries of origins, sneer at all not in comportment with their own preferences, etc make me wonder about how they conduct the balance of their lives.
There is no such thing as a universal machine tool. one that could machine a spill gate seat bar or locomotive frame as readily as it could make mechanical watch parts or machine mirrors for the Webb telescope. A good designer targets solving a particular problem while biulding in as much range, power, esthetics etc consistant with production in specific numbers to a specific price for a certain market segment. Many factors go into a successful design many which conflict. Increasing rigitity raises the prive because of the larger propoetions and mass of the strain resisting elements. Many other factors if emphasised increase the cost, reduce sensitivity, etc.
IOW a good design is the product of a balancing act. Say what you will about a turret mill (the Kleenex name for a turret mill is "Bridgeport") the origianal design spawed many imitators. Some try to use it as a jig borer some as a drill press. In face it was originally designed as a low end machine tool pacting as much geometric versatility in a given machne weight and working envelope. For exaple by extending and swinging the ram the spindle can be poised over the most of the table surface making access to large sized work pieces possilble withing the table weightcapacity. The millinghed's qiull, power feed, tilt, and nod simplifiect angular feature eliminating the need to re-position the workpiece.
You get a lot of bang for the buck from a Bridgeport. It's what I cave come to think of as an honest machine. It will do a lot of thicgs quite well but it is not a remover of heavy stock or inteded for weighty tale loads. It is what it is. There have been a number of successgul desighs that live up the their desighers's expectations like the South Bend line of engine lathes, the Ford model T, the origical Volksvagen, the hamburger, three phase AC power transmission, jeans, the list extends to artifacts that influenced the whole of material culture. Yet all are not perfect or infinitely adaptable.
So sneer not. A sneer is an emotional response against that which excites our prejudices. We need pregisices and stereotypes etc becasue they greatly simplify day to day life. Without them we would have to evaluate every situation encountered anew. OTH if carried too far one responses can get very ugly.
In the course of my long acreer in the machinist's trade I've run on a productiuon basis machine tools that could in an afternoon mill away into chips the largest machine tools in the experience most of PM readers. You need an existential perspective when viewing the expances of uour trade. There is a line in Julius Caesar that I love to cite as an ilustration: "Forgive Britannius Caesar, He is a barbarian and thinks the customs of his tribe are the Law of the Universe." Particularly the irony of using the perjorative "babbarian" inthe same sentancewhere the tragidy of a narrw workld view is illustrated. Irony at its best.
I call on those who sneer at Briggeports, import machine tools, close tolerances etc to remember all have their rightful places. If you have other preferences fine but try not to let your preferences solidify into open, sneering, contemptuous mechanical bigotry.
Bill -
Well, slap me stupid! I bought a Glacern R8 shell arbor and it fits a Glacern facecutter beautifully, but doesn't fit a regular shell cutter! Problem is the retaining washer on the arbor .... it has a step on one end that let's it center into the facecutter bore. If you swap out the facecutter for a regular shell mill, the washer bottoms out on the arbor before it can tighten on the cutter. Maybe 1/8" of slop! Can't flip the washer over because it's recessed for the retaining bolt. Ok, so making another washer is easy enough, but for the money you would think the thing would be designed to accept standard cutters right out of the box, or at least come with an assortment of washers.
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- [machinist] 1" endmill ..... which tool holder to use? - Page 2, Lawrence London, 02/15/2014
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