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- From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
- To: machinist@lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: [machinist] indexible insert questions
- Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 05:45:59 -0500
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/indexible-insert-questions-274456/
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- Oct 2013
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- Evansville, IN
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indexible insert questions
I am a NEWBIE here and looked at this site on and off over the years but just never signed up. Now I have a dilema and thought I would join and put it out there for all the more experienced than I. Problem is with a question on carbide inserts.
Seems that I picked up, rather cheaply, a Carobloy3" face mill (6 tooth)that had never been used. Great deal, right? Problem is that is uses a square insert that is no longer made. Best I can tell it is a SPG 5.5 which is an 11/16 inscribed circle. Not even sure it ever was made but you can see a 5.5 listing in insert charts as being 11/16ic. An SPG 633 is the right thickness at 0.1875 but it overhangs the wedge shim by enough that I would guess will cause the carbide to break. Wondering if I should just mark it up to experience or if some 633's could be ground down to 11/16 on a diamond wheel.
Thanks for anyones comments-
First of all, what is the model number of the mill? There are a lot of guys around here with old catalogs that can give you an insert number. I've got 2 good buddies that work for SECO.
JR -
11-01-2013, 08:28 AM #3
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JR
Carobloy face mill is marked ZNPOM-0306-R1. There was one insert in the head when I got it. That is where I came up with what I think the insert size is. I have searched most of the big companies and can find no one that has a 11/16 square insert. -
You don't think maybe you should look at this insert instead? SPG 533 Carbide Insert SPG Carbide Inserts
5/8 IC. Brings it much closer than 3/4 IC.
Just my thoughts. -
11-01-2013, 09:26 AM #5
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You'll need to be careful with current inserts as many Carboloy cutters had more positive axial rake than similar competitive cutters.
Carboloy milling inserts had additional clearance under the cutting edge, so an industry standard square insert would heel and rub on the part face when used in a Carboloy milling cutter.
Proceed with caution and try to find the correct Carboloy insert.
Mike -
11-01-2013, 10:14 AM #6
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-
You'll probably want to bump this thread up Monday morning. The guy you want to catch is carbidebob. If he can't help you, I have some resources at work.
JR -
11-02-2013, 08:03 AM #8
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11-02-2013, 04:45 PM #9
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Originally Posted by JRIowa
You'll probably want to bump this thread up Monday morning. The guy you want to catch is carbidebob. If he can't help you, I have some resources at work.
JR
What the heck,......... Do I look like the "Shell answer man"?
(apologies to younger ones who may not get this)
I only know a little of this stuff.
But this one I know well as I've made more than a few "clones" on the B-port as a younger man.
Zero lead, negative radial, positive axial, medium pitch cutter.
Standard insert is a SPE-633.
SP?-63? will fit. ie: SPG-632, SPG-634 SPC-636, etc.
You should take this cutter apart occasionally and clean the wedges and their seating surface.
Look where the screw head depth sits when clamped before doing this so you can get the screws in right as it can be confusing to put together.
Yes the inserts stick out a ways, they will hold up just fine.
Bobcudafamily likes this. -
11-04-2013, 07:49 AM #10
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- Oct 2013
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- Evansville, IN
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Thanks carbidebob.
The two good inserts that were in the head measured at 11/16 and I was assumming they were right. Just looks like a 633 would be prone to breakage as the hangover is so high. One other thing I did notice over the weekend when I was more closely examining the two originals in the head. They are not square, but it was hard to notice till I happened to put them against a square. They are more parallelogram shaped, but that lead angle is only 3 degrees which is why it was hard to identify visually. Maybe these we just some inserts stuck in the head by previous owner, but I still cannot get over there unusual size, and now the angle too!
>From how mine is constructed there is no way to alter or get the wedge screw in wrong. Allen head bold the sets inside the wedge in a milled pocket. I will try to post a pic for you to look at closer. -
11-04-2013, 01:22 PM #11
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carbide insert update
I have some pics of the mill, wedges and inserts. You should be able to see how much the insert hangs over the wedge. If you say it won't be a problem I will give it a try. Also I have a closeup of the wedge and allen bolt holding system. Very straight forwartd. The last pic is of a SPG 633 on the left and one of the 11/16 inserts that came with the face mill. Not sure that you will be able to see the slight 3 degree taper that I mentioned.
-
Now that you mention it, yes you do. I was told today that I look like Edmund Gwenn, the guy that played Kris Kringle in the original "Miracle on 34th Street" Originally Posted by CarbideBob
What the heck,......... Do I look like the "Shell answer man"?
JR -
11-04-2013, 08:11 PM #13
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My mistake (brain fart) on the wedges. JRIowa shows up and gets me all confused thinking about weird inserts.
With the 633 insert loaded what is the dia. across the outside?
Should be 3 inches. the "03" in your part number.
Also with a SPG-63 loaded the dia should check the same at the top and bottom of the inserts.
Is there a lead in the cutter body? There should not be.
The insert you have is confusing and a 5.5 IC is not a standard, perhaps a regrind?
There is a "NPC-63N2" (Futurmill P66P-CIE) but it is a 3/4 IC.
I could make the one insert you have into the other if you would like but the setup charge($50.00) is not cheap at low quantities.
The "N" insert should give you the same lead. The difference would be on the bottom of the cutter.
The only reason I can think of to do this would be if you wanted to ramp mill with this cutter.
It also would reduce chatter if used in a very high feed application.
You may want to check for heel clearance on the bottom of the cutter.
The inside bottom edge should be slightly higher than the cutting tip with the SPG, with the N there will be more clearance towards the center.
Bob -
Oh sure, just blame me. It's a good thing that I've got broad shoulders and can handle everything that gets piled on me. Originally Posted by CarbideBob
JRIowa shows up and gets me all confused thinking about weird inserts.
What about that Cleveland insert?
I'm going to keep bugging you about that or send it to you.
JR
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- [machinist] indexible insert questions, Lawrence London, 11/06/2013
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