Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

[childers.paula AT epamail.epa.gov]

exactly my point.

there are, astoundingly enough, probably at least one or two things we
would ALL agree on. which is why its better to talk civilly than call
names, and better to place your ideas into a positive context than
simply rant.  DM has some good ideas. Ben has some good ideas. Steve has
some good ideas. etc. Somehow, though, it seems that many of us get
caught up in associating the ideas with an attitude or category (eg
kook, or fascist, or whatever) and then transferring our negative
emotions about the category to the person -

- instead of taking the time to listen to the other person for the
common ground.

Paula




                                                                              
                                     
                      Shea Tisdale                                            
                                     
                      <shea AT sheatisdale.com>                To:       
"'Internetworkers:                           
                      Sent by:                               
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                      ibiblio.org                           cc:               
                                     
                                                            Subject:  RE: 
[internetworkers] PATRIOT Act (for Kurt) 
                                                                              
                                     
                      09/22/03 02:15 PM                                       
                                     
                      Please respond to                                       
                                     
                      "Internetworkers:                                       
                                     
                      http://www.ibiblio.org/interne                          
                                     
                      tworkers/"                                              
                                     
                                                                              
                                     
                                                                              
                                     




Wait a minute, Ben and I agree on something.
I need to make a note of this...

:-)



> -----Original Message-----
> From: internetworkers-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:internetworkers-
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of brunkb AT ils.unc.edu
> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:57 PM
> To: internetworkers AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [internetworkers] PATRIOT Act (for Kurt)
>
> I'm happy to see some activism, I guess the "you all" statement in my
last
> message was largely misplaced.  The revelations about vote counting
aren't
> very inspiring, but US elections have always been rigged one way or
> another, so whatever.
>
> Addressing Kurt's message:
>
> >I have my own concerns
> >about "Big Brother" but there is nothing in this form letter that
>makes
> a
> good case for repeal.
>
> I think the misuse of the Act is a good case for repealing it.  It's
> purpose is supposedly to address the threat of terrorism in the US.
Any
> other use represents an abuse.  The Brits are going through this stuff
> right now with CCTV cameras.  The cameras were "sold" to the public
for
> the
> sake of protection against terrorism (an absurd notion, but that is
what
> they did).  Now the cameras are being used for every little thing and
the
> costs are enormous and not one terrorist has ever been caught by them.
> So,
> of course, instead of admitting to a failed policy, it is instead
swept
> under the rug (the memory hole?) using the new argument of "well, they
are
> good for general crime control."  The mythical infallibility of the
state
> reminds me of the mythical infallibility of the Catholic Church during
the
> Middle Ages.
>
> Also, very few Congressmen or Senators actually read the Act before
voting
> on it, so that is another very good reason to do away with it.  Their
job
> is to debate and make informed decisions, not vote out of fear and
> emotional urgency.  They didn't do their only job.  But they voted
> themselves a pay raise for the fourth year in a row.
>
>
> >Some jackass got nailed for running a meth lab using the act. How is
> >this
> a bad thing?
>
> And lots of "jackasses" got nailed for running stills, brewing beer,
and
> smuggling liquor in the 1930s.  The war on drugs is the worst public
> policy
> this side of the Volsted Act.  Meth labs are just a symptom of a much,
> much
> bigger ill in this country.  I don't want the PATRIOT Act used to
escalate
> the insane policies of prohibition, and I doubt that the case in NC
will
> hold up.  If the DA can't get a conviction for the charge of running a
> meth
> lab (which is illegal, btw), then he must be grasping at straws.
There is
> growing urgency to completely alter these failed policies--Canada is
close
> to legalizing pot, for example.  It's about time something new was
> attempted (and by "new" I mean, a return to personal choice and
> responsibility).  It's only the law enforcement and judicial
*industry* in
> the US that gains from prohibition who are so dead set against it, due
to
> their economic interests.  It's just sad that bad policies have to be
> adhered to so stubbornly for mere "tough on crime" political
haymaking.
>
> My personal concern is that the war on terror is a replacement for the
war
> on drugs (we've already been assaulted with propaganda trying to tie
drug
> use to supporting terrorism).  Drug prohibition could not justify a
$500B
> Pentagon budget, as well as FBI, NSA, CIA and other agencies' bloated
> budgets (and despite all of the money already wasted on militarism,
> America
> suffered the 9/11 attack).  Yet "narco-terrorists" only exist at all
> because of prohibition.  I keep hearing that "the era of big
government is
> back."  I keep wondering "did it go anywhere?"
>
>
> Ben
> ---
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