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[Mark Andrews <mandrews AT ibiblio.org>]

The problem is that these these people ARE NOT religious, at least not by my
definition. Religion is a quest for truth, just like science, and those
people who are truly religious will seek truth even when it goes against
what they want to believe. The problem is that most so called religious
people don't read their own f**king manual, ex. The Bible, Koran, etc., and
when I say read, I mean read everything in context and try to understand the
message that the author wants to convey, instead of picking out a passage
here and there to justify why you want to blow up a bus of school children
or why you think "fags" are evil. I truly believe that most religious texts
have a lot of wonderful things to teach us about tolerance, love, and
finding our way in the world if people could get over themselves long enough
to listen. 
 
-Mark 


On 7/1/02 12:27 AM, "David R. Matusiak" <matusiak AT speakeasy.net> wrote:

> i certainly was never endorsing and/or excusing israel. i think their 
> religion
> is bullshit, too. and as far as i can determine, sharon is pure evil.
> 
> at this point, i really don't care "who is doing what to whom."
> i don't care who is "right."
> i don't care who "was there first."
> frankly, i am losing my ability to care whatsoever.
> 
> it appears my point was entirely lost with the initial post. i was trying to
> directly address one of the talking points i've seen repeated in print,
> online, 
> and television media. the whole "modernity" thing. whatever; it all seems
> beside the point now.
> 
> besides being completely disgusted with the damage that organized religion 
> has
> brought to the world, i remain completely stupefied that educated people 
> still
> convince themselves to believe in something so unprovable and useless. 
> instead
> of actually doing good things in the world, we are constantly deadlocked
> between 
> two or more states of righteousness.
> 
> we are wasting time and money debating things which have no solid evidence 
> in
> the entirety of human history. our courts have to stumble with two stupid
> words 
> in the pledge of allegiance. the chinese kill and abuse falun dafa members 
> and
> tibetan monks because they are afraid of their power to organize people. and
> these folks in the middle east just can't seem to get enough of their
> neighbors 
> blood on their hands.
> 
> why?
> 
> do we really need these myths and fables?
> 
> is the simple thought of dying and turning back into dust just too 
> depressing
> for the average world citizen to handle?
> 
> are we so mentally occupied with being "politically correct" and "sensitive 
> to
> the feelings of others" that we cannot even discuss these things anymore?
> 
> the united states has given food, medical care, and good 'ol cash to
> practically 
> every country in the world. over and over again. our diplomats are always 
> the
> ones relied upon the solve the worlds problems. and every time we make any
> progress towards any type of peace accord in that region, someone over there
> has 
> to f*ck it up. be it arafat, sharon, or a suicide bomber. or a combination 
> of
> all three. this is going on, what, fourty years now??
> 
> and they remain in power. fantastic. i can't wait to get taxed for the next
> goddamn "economic stimulus to bosnia/afghanistan/whereever" issue. i'm glad 
> i
> can pay all the bills for them to keep blowing up civilization and then have
> them turn around and spit in my face while calling me an american pig.
> 
> it shouldn't be hard to tell that my level of frustration has boiled over. i
> would say that happened years ago and that this is merely the protective
> membrane collapsing from the pressure. how is everyone else able to go about
> their daily lives and not be completely enraged by this b.s.? i don't think 
> i
> have the ability to politely dance around peoples' feelings when it comes to
> these issues any longer. if your archaic myth is costing me money and
> demolishing whatever peace i had left, then i am aiming directly at you.
> 
> the usa is not perfect, goodness knows. our politicians are imperfect, too.
> you 
> can find me deriding them all the time. however, as pretty much the youngest
> major country in the world, we have become the model for all existence. as
> crappy as our culture is, everyone wants a piece of it. they want to emulate
> our 
> movies, music, fashion, well - just about everything.
> 
> yet it is not sufficient to take, enjoy, and mutate in your own culture. for
> some reason, all the takers have to be completely hypocritical and snipe at
> our 
> citizens while wearing levis or wranglers. my point is that i would admire
> some 
> of these militant religious freaks a little more if they were not such
> disgusting hypocrites. if they could really stick to their guns and eschew
> everything western, then perhaps i could think that their religion actually
> meant something to them.
> 
> instead, they want to dip on both sides of the pot and still be able to 
> claim
> that they are chaste and pure. what a complete disgrace to their faith. and 
> so
> that concludes all i feel i should say on the topic. what else is there to
> say, 
> really? from the looks of it, the entire globe should be decimated in about
> two 
> to three years. go out and do whatever the hell you like. with no regard for
> any 
> other human beings. now is the time for that cadillac escalade...
> 
> here is something i said over dinner on friday (whilst discussing this 
> thorny
> issue with friends): "i would be happy if motherf*ckers would just stop
> killing 
> motherf*ckers long enough to have a discussion." sorry for the length, the
> tone, 
> the topic, but not for the intent.
> 
> ___  _ _____ . ....
> m a h t o o z e e a c k  a t  s p e e k e e z e e  d o t  n e t
> ------ / / .........     . . .
> 
> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Thomas Beckett wrote:
> 
>> There's a lot of information and misinformation out there.  Here's another
>> point of view.
>> 
>> http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/TheTruth11_files/frame.htm
>> 
>> TaB
>> 
>> P.S.  I'm not endorsing the site, I don't know much about it.  But the PPT
>> presentation is quite compelling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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