Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

homestead - Re: [Homestead] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Schools

homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Homestead mailing list

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Schools
  • Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:46:31 -0500



Clansgian AT wmconnect.com wrote:


Why? First 99.9% of all higher math learned in a vacuum is forgotten
within a short time. Don't thinks so? If I were to take your
highschool or college math textbooks, how much of it could you still
do cold? For most people it is very, very little.

I'll agree with you on that, but I personally can still do calculus. I
took it for several years, and all that practice just drilled in the
methods. Algebra for me is as simple as you saying the alphabet.


Is what you 'feel' based on observation and experience or is it part
of the schooling conditioning? It's a fair question.

Well, I've never been unschooled or homeschooled, but I am what they
call a lifetime learner and I teach myself a lot. I have always done
this, too, even in public school and throughout college. I don't think
it is an either/or question. I would say that when I said "I feel that
they really need to have a more well-rounded capability in math, even if
they end up in a career that doesn't use it", I think I meant it both
from observation and experience, as well as being 'brainwashed' as you
say. Most people today change careers several times in their lives.
You never know what you will need to know for a certain job. If you
choose acting, for example, and you become a dramatic actress for the
first ten years of your career, and then suddenly you get fat and can't
find a job anymore, then you might have to change careers in order to
provide for your family or do something else you enjoy. Most people are
approaching 30 after 10 years in a first career, and it is hard enough
to recall what math skills you once learned after that period of time,
let alone try to learn anew if you haven't been actively
learning/practicing the whole time. Sure, it can be done, but during
those weeks or months you are teaching yourself that new skill or
method, so that you can qualify for the new job, you family income is
zip, whereas if you knew it all along, you could make a career
transition in a reasonable period of time.
I consider math skills like any other homestead skills-gardening,
sewing, etc.....you learn it, you practice it, and then when you really
need it, you have it, and you have already done all the trial and error
part of learning, so the knowledge is there when you need it to be. If
all you have ever sewn is a few pillows, but suddenly you need a wedding
dress, you better learn quick. It can be done, sure, but the time it
will take you to do it might put a damper on the wedding. Likewise, you
learn to garden before you are hungry or so poor you NEED to grow your
own. You practice it year to year, starting small and working your way
up, until you can master your land. If all you've ever grown is a few
sunflowers or some potted plants from a nursery, you are in for a rude
awakening when you try to feed yourself.
I am not as succinct with words as you, James, so I hope you understand
what I am trying to convey. So, the answer is yes, all of the
above...it is observation, it is experience, and it is the schooling
conditioning.


Bev, you are indulging in the schooling practice of amputating
something from reality and holding it up as if it were a separate
thing with a life of it's own.
Perhaps.

For example, the older children were once engaged in speculating how
tall a certain dead tree was. I told them they could figure it out
without measuring the tree directly. After some dialog, they figured
it out without usng what you'd recognize as 'trig functions'. (I will
go through the process they came up with if you are interested).

Yes, I know that method. My stepfather taught it to me when I was a kid
as he used to work for a tree company subcontracted by the forest
service. It's geometry, not trig. Geometry can often be substituted for trig in angular based triangles, but for spherical triangles, you really need trig. What occupations deal with spherical triangles and would likely use trig? Astronomy, oceanography, meteorology, cartography, navigation, audiology (important for musicians too.), just to name a few.

That is, if you took the standard exams (TCAP's in this state) and
gave them the trig parts, they'd think the author of the test was
demented and far divorced from reality (and they wouldn't be far from
wrong). Yet they have an intimacy with angles and how they function
that completely does away forever with the false concept that any of
it is beyond them.

I don't know James, playing devil's advocate here, that sounds a bit like ignorance, knowing that you don't know something yet demeaning the source of the knowledge as being divorced from reality?? Whose reality? Maybe in my reality I use trig more than your kids do, and maybe just maybe, they could learn something from me instead of turning me off because I claim higher knowledge.

Life, for them, is the problem to be solved. Not so much solved as
savored. Take today for example, a friend took all of us for a day's
outing on the local lake on his steam launch. Eldest was given the
helm, told to keep the boiler between 100 and 120 psi, and to call
out the depth on the depth gauge (fish locator). We had a great
time, as he was wearing his pirate hat.

"Helmsman, where away?" "Bearing SSW, depth is 128 feet." "Give us
that in fathoms, mate." "Ay, 21 fathoms, capt'n." "And what speed." "Ah ... uh ... what be the length of this vessel, bos'un (friend who
owned the boat)" "28 feet" Here eldest tossed his apple core near the
bow and counted as it passed the length of the boat. "Speed be 4 feet
per second." (The boat passed the core in seven seconds). "Give us
that in knots." "Aye, capt'n, remind us again what be a nautical
mile." "1.15 land lubber miles, mate."

After a few minutes he came up with the right speed, the direction we
were going based on the sun's position (roughly) and how long it
would take us to make the return trip. All in his head while
steering the boat and looking out for shallows.

Meanwhile younger daughter was asking how the steam moved the boat,
what did the 120 psi on the gauge mean, and what happened to all that
energy by the time the cool water was exhausted.

That sounds like a fun day, James. Pretty soon, your kids will be the captain of their own ship, and while they will be able to read the instruments and rig the sails, will they truly be able to navigate? Or will it be a hit and miss proposition. Did they use an astrolabe or do they know how to use one? If they left San Diego on a sailboat heading for the Galapagos, would they be able to pinpoint their position on a map, or just approximate it, because when you are talking about visiting islands in the ocean, you really need precision. One degree off equates to the island being over the horizon.

I guess my point is that I know your kids are learning, but as a parent, I would worry that they would be overconfident in what they already know and since they don't presently see the need to learn something more advanced, they don't. This lack of learning a new, more advanced skill could be the difference between making the island and not making the island.

What are his/her interests (the oldest)?

Making model ships, historically accurate ships from scratch.

Ask him a question for me...I have been wanting to know what the Vikings/Norsemen used for navigation. Obviously, they used the stars, but that is rather general information. Did they use sand clocks?


It is an unexamined myth that an integrated education such as the
unschooler has makes it difficult to deal with artificially specific
subjects such as trig functions and scientific notation.

Well, I don't believe that myth. I also don't believe certain things are artificial, either. You know I homeschooled and unschooled with my own kids, so you know I am not anti-homeschool. BUT, not all unschoolers and homeschoolers are as diligent as your children or Lynda's, and not all homeschooling parents are providing the opportunities like your steam launch experience, so that leads me to the conclusion that some kids, the ones who aren't motivated to learn if something is hard, are falling through the cracks.


To an
intelligent mind that has never had the false focus that it ought to
be hard and mysterious, it takes all of five minutes to explain
scientific notation and not twenty to use it in calculations.

Agreed. I did not mean to imply that is was an advanced math or that it would be hard to learn. I included that because it is a concept that people rarely use on a homestead yet one that I believe people should understand. You, personally, would take the 5 minutes to explain it to your kids, but would others?


Bev
--
BevanRon of EarthNSky Farm NW Georgia USDA Zone 7
34.498N 85.076W Bev is Earth, Ron is Sky





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page