Global Reproductive Health IT Support list

["William Lester" <WLester AT engenderhealth.org>]

RE: …moreover, Windows was perceived as being better (as it cost money)…

 

This is the problem that we face all over Africa. Here’s an interesting (non-FOSS) example:

 

SANGONet in South Africa has partnered with TechSoup to offer qualified NGOs in South Africa software from Microsoft and hardware from Cisco at substantially discounted prices. TechSoup is very popular in the US and provides many organizations an affordable way to obtain needed products.

 

When I asked our eRider who supports our Johannesburg office to apply for the SANGOTech program, he was very suspicious. He felt that because the products were being offered at a discount, there must be something wrong with them. I assured him that the products were of equal quality to the full-price options. I even reminded him that he had met several of the principles at SANGONet and knew them to be honorable people, dedicated to helping the NGO sector. He would not budge until I “insisted” that he follow-up on the offer.

 

Throughout the vetting/ordering process, he treated every email or question or hiccup as an example of how we were being bilked. He was not alone in his suspicions. Others in the JNB office held the same belief. This continues to be the hardest sell I ever encountered. Based on past experiences, they don’t believe that someone would offer something for free or very little cost without strings or consequences.

 

I face the same problem with FOSS. I’ve been able to overcome some of the doubt and suspicion by paying local consultants to install, configure, and customize the products. Spending money is seen as having a direct relationship to the quality of the product or service, and so avoiding volunteers or local staff, and outsourcing to consultants has helped me to deal with some of the fears about FOSS.

 

Have others faced these kinds of problems?

 

William (Bill) Lester

Chief Information Officer

EngenderHealth | 440 Ninth Avenue

New York City |  10001  |  US

email:  wlester AT engenderhealth.org

phone: +1.212.561.8002

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Howard [mailto:ihoward AT netdotworking.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:45 AM
To: Rudi von Staden
Cc: "Frederick Noronha [फ़रेदरिक नोरोनया]"; interider AT npogroups.org
Subject: Re: [InteRider] A MARRIAGE BOUND NOT TO HAPPEN? FLOSS AND NGOs

 

Frederick, Rudi,

 

Yes, very interesting comments gentlemen. Thanks.

 

We had some interesting work with Free and Open Source Software

(FOSS/Linux) up in West Africa too. We had been proponents, generally,

of FOSS and used it for much of our work there, where we had been

working on brining ICTs to rural areas of Mali. In our work, we had

received a number of computers donated by various organizations, such as

Computer Frontiers. What we realized is that we needed a way to keep

these computers virus free and also, keep these computers fairly task

specific -- that is as a computer for a radio station. We were

installing computers in very remote areas, so tech support was not easy.

Of course we were inclined to use Linux. Many of our users were

indifferent, as they hadn't really used any computer before. The simple

interface that we had built, based on Xfce worked well -- it was far

easier that a Windows interface. Moreover, the distribution that we had

created, called Kunnafonix (based on Morphix), a version of Linux, was

designed so that it was very easy to repair, or install. We distributed

two disks with the computer. One to reinstall back to the original

state, and the second, just to repair the system. This worked very well.

Years later, these older computer are still running, and required little

support (we sometimes received a phone call, in which we would say, ok,

insert the CD and boot, there is only one question in the installation,

"Would you like to install?" and voila!) In my mind this was a great

success, though often our computers were soon replaced by brand new

Pentium 4s running windows, which, within a few months were soon

infected by viruses or were commandeered to play games etc. So, despite

it being a success, it was limited. Our system was so easy that it

didn't require someone to have to learn how to fix it, or tinker, while

windows required that in spades. It also changed a small power dynamic,

where someone with some tech savy would be able to leverage that with

windows (which they might know) but not our distro. Moreover, Windows

was perceived as being better (as it cost money), even by those with

little knowledge of computers. So, were we successful? I think

technically we were, but in the end FOSS is no longer in those radio

station and our distro is now dusty. Nonetheless, I would not be

surprised to find a few of those computers still running in a radio

station, 150 Kilometres from Timbuktu, or further, whilst their Windows

successors have long succumbed to viruses or deprecation.

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

Rudi von Staden wrote:

> Thanks for another interesting article, Frederick. I am working on a

> project in rural South Africa at the moment, and perhaps from that

> perspective I can give a few quick comments which relate.

> 

> * Most (community based) NGOs are not using FOSS because they haven't

> the foggiest idea that it exists.

> There are no linux users groups or other FOSS advocacy groups active

> in the rural areas, and most of the limited knowledge they do have on

> computer issues is based on what they may have learned from other

> community members or from trainings they've attended in the past.

> These trainings would generally focus on basic use of Windows and

> other Microsoft products. What community members can teach them is (at

> least in my limited experience) often focused on entertainment and not

> something as idealistic and nebulous as the FOSS ideals. Having said

> that, I have often found useful free products installed if they work

> (things like AVG for antivirus). These are often installed by

> technicians when they take their computer in for repairs. So if they

> are to use FOSS, they will need a broker of sorts.

> 

> * I (as a potential broker) do not often recommend FOSS to them

> because of what might happen when I'm not there.

> I use FOSS almost exclusively because I like the freedom, flexibility

> and challenge. But if I am going to recommend it to one of the groups

> that I work with, I need to know that it will add value to their work.

> I usually see them for one day a month at the most, and so I'm

> hesitant to introduce any drastic changes into their systems that will

> leave them crippled until I get back again. The result is that I'll be

> very unlikely to install Linux. And while I am in agreement with the

> philosophy of FOSS, it goes a little over the heads of these groups

> who sometimes still struggle with the concept of a mouse, and are too

> focused on social injustices in their communities to worry too much

> about the injustices caused by corporate monopolies. This may be an

> over-simplification, but the result is that I won't recommend or

> install FOSS software unless it is cheaper and/or more stable and/or

> has more appropriate features which match their needs better than

> commercial alternatives. And it would have to run on Windows. In

> practice, that usually means Thunderbird, Firefox and OpenOffice.org.

> 

> However, I do recommend these products fairly frequently, and have

> never had any problems with them. In fact, I've had a lot more

> problems with Microsoft products. Recently I had to upgrade a lot of

> the groups to Windows XP from Windows 98. I did consider upgrading to

> Ubuntu instead, but since the project was connectivity-focused and

> relied on being able to easily connect to the Internet using 3G data

> cards, Ubuntu would have been too technically challenging to support.

> However, after upgrading them to XP (using discounted software), most

> of their copies of Microsoft Office stopped working because they

> detected a major change in the system. All they needed was the

> original Office CD to be inserted to unlock them, but in many cases

> the original CD had been lost or never existed in the first place.

> This issue was the result of restrictive usage agreements and would

> never have been a problem with FOSS software. In some cases I had to

> migrate them to OpenOffice as a result.

> 

> So I would say that the reasons why NGOs don't use FOSS are much more

> practical than philosophical, and unfortunately require that FOSS

> software compete with proprietary software on their own terms of cost,

> usability, stability and marketing if they are to succeed.

> 

> Regards,

> Rudi

> 

> --

> Rudi von Staden

> Programme Manager

> Ungana-Afrika

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Frederick Noronha [फ़रेदरिक नोरोनया] wrote:

>> A MARRIAGE BOUND NOT TO HAPPEN? FLOSS AND NGOs

>> 

>> By Frederick Noronha

>> 

>> SYDNEY, Australia: In theory, it should be the perfect fit. A

>> world where alternative software is suitably matched with the

>> needs of the alternative campaign and not-for-profit world.

>> Yet, in real life, NGOs (non-government organisations) and

>> others in the campaign network fall back on proprietorial,

>> "unfree" software written by influential corporations rather

>> than opt for Free Software.

>> 

>> This is all the more of a paradox since Free Software is one

>> of the few alternative sectors where the "alternative is

>> better than the real thing" in a way. Free Software is known

>> for its robustness, diversity and even being an ethical

>> choice. But it doesn't get widely used in the alternate

>> and campaign sector.

>> 

>> Question is: why?

>> 

>> What are the challenges when non-profits face technology?

>> 

>> Grant McHerron of APC.au says: "Aside from the usual

>> challenges (which come up when dealing) with most small

>> organisations, such as the lack of money, and lack of

>> knowledge, I think the challenge is really trying to work

>> with them to make sure that they know what's being done..."

>> 

>> He doesn't see non-profits as being "suspicious of

>> technology" in a place like Australia. "It's pretty up on

>> technology once they get the hang of it. Here they're not

>> worried about it," says Grant.

>> 

>> But there are new challenges coming in. While offering FLOSS

>> solutions, they found a major proprietorial software firm

>> offering "educational discounts" to those planning to shift

>> to FLOSS.

>> 

>> "After this, the difference in cost was negligible," he

>> notes.

>> 

>> Andrew  Lowenthal of Tactical Tech, who informally addressed

>> APC members about his work during the Sydney meeting, argues

>> that FLOSS itself has certain limitations which need to be

>> fixed.

>> 

>> Says Andrew, also known just as "And": "FLOSS is often

>> confusing and etremely overwheling for non-technical people.

>> It can be badly documented and too geeky. Sometimes it's hard

>> to find tools that work, or people are simply afraid. It's

>> also difficult to download tools because of bandwidth

>> issues."

>> 

>> But, at the same time, he points out that FLOSS also offers

>> some potential: it is free and legal to copy and distribute.

>> If 'editorial teams' select the most relevant and mature

>> tools, it is possible to 'build on the collective knowledge

>> of people using these tools'. And FLOSS users tend to be

>> rather free in sharing all they know!

>> 

>> "(Because it's FLOSS, and not encumbered by restrictive

>> copyrights) we can easily hand out copies of the software

>> programme after we teach it," explains And.

>> 

>> The lack of technical and support skills is one issue. Until

>> non-profit users can feel comfortable using FLOSS, sure they

>> will get the support when things go wrong, they will probably

>> just NOT use it. Another issue is the fact that we humans

>> remain creatures of habit. So what if FLOSS is more ethical?

>> Isn't Windows all that more easier to use, and haven't we

>> just been using it all this time?

>> 

>> But there are other less-discussed issues too.

>> 

>> Grant McHerron of APC.au admits that FLOSS (Free/Libre and

>> Open Source Software) faces a "lack of tools" on some, even

>> if only a few, fronts. This can be irritating.

>> 

>> "The big one is on the database front. There is a niche that

>> MSAccess fills, and I have yet to find a competitor (in the

>> FLOSS world). I must admit I haven't done any major research

>> in that area," says he.

>> 

>> "MS Access allows a reasonable savvy user to quickly create

>> basic databases, with input screens and reports. These can

>> then be shared between a small number of workers on the

>> network," says McHerron.

>> 

>> "So far the database with Open Office isn't (very

>> powerful)... you can't do relations between tables. You can't

>> have multiple tables. So, you either have very simple tools

>> or reasonably complex ones (in the FLOSS world) such as

>> Postgres and MySQL, at the top end, for which you need to be

>> a database administrator to know what you're doing. There's a

>> large gap in the middle. If you could fill it, that would be

>> really something," says McHerron.

>> 

>> OTHER GAPS

>> 

>> There are other gaps too waiting to be filled, even if these

>> need not be an alibi for trying out the increasingly

>> easier-to-use FLOSS tools.

>> 

>> Other tools in shortage in a FLOSS world include those

>> related to accounting and membership applications.

>> 

>> "These need a lot of logic, and the understanding of relevant

>> business rules. These are classic database applications, that

>> would in the past have been developed with Access or DOTNet

>> or things like that. And accessed thru workstations,

>> connected through a central database server," explains

>> McHerron.

>> 

>> Until now this has been a block to move across over to a

>> GNU/Linux-based system. Because we still have to run our

>> database system, and that requires Windows.

>> 

>> But soon this could cease to be a problem.

>> 

>> "Over the next 2-5 years, I see this block disappearing

>> completely. More and more systems use a database server and a

>> web-based frontend. Now you just need a browser. Suddenly

>> more and more companies need a powerful database sysem rather

>> than just an access system, are installing dedicated systems

>> to act as a database server and a webapplication server,"

>> explains McHerron.

>> 

>> You are now also getting centralised hosting, the ASP

>> (application service providers) model.

>> 

>> Says he: "Suddenly with these, you've got MySQL or Postgres

>> as your database, Apache as your webserver, PHP for your

>> logic, and who cares what the client is doing!"

>> 

>> At the moment, a lot of development is still being done in

>> DotNET, where you still need a Windows environment to run

>> ActiveX and things like that (other embedded objects). But

>> it's becoming much more generic," explains McHerron (39).

>> 

>> WITHIN APC ASIA

>> 

>> But within the network of APC members in Asia, there are some

>> strong feelings about the need to promote FLOSS.

>> 

>> Bobby Soriano's IPD in the Philippines is campaining

>> "internally" for that group to migrate to FLOSS. Bobby is

>> himself actively involved with FLOSS advocacy. Says he: "We

>> have a 20-computer FLOSS training facility. Organisations get

>> a time slot to use these facilities, to learn."

>> 

>> Says Ahmed of VOICE, APC's newish member in Dhaka,

>> Bangladesh: "We get convinced about the need for FLOSS. The

>> quiestion is how to do it, and how to be acquainted.

>> Technically, we lack the knowledge."

>> 

>> Australia-based APC-member C20 did a survey on attitudes of

>> non-profit organisations towards FLOSS. This is currently

>> under processing. They also did work on FLOSS in higher

>> education for UNESCO in Paris.

>> 

>> BytesForAll's Readers list

>> [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bytesforall_readers] has been

>> active in promoting FLOSS ideas and campaigns. Its members

>> have also played a role in networking GNU/Linux user-groups

>> across South Asia (there are 130+ in India itself). Besides,

>> the BytesForAll network has been actively trying to build

>> FLOSS bridges of friendship across the conflict-prone region

>> of South Asia.

>> 

>> One suggestion that came up was to promote the 'transfer of

>> knowledge' by making available technology magazines from the

>> North to readers in the South.

>> 

>> At APC's Asia-Pacific members' meet held in the coastal

>> Australian city of Sydney recently, some felt it was

>> important for APC's concerned members to focuss on the

>> challenges that block the wider implementation of FLOSS,and

>> also look close as to what APC as a group would manage.

>> 

>>> From the Phillipines, FMA (the Foundation for Media

>> Alternatives) is offering individual trainings and sessions

>> with NGOs. They have finished working on a 'FLOSS and

>> education' paper. Recently, they also entered the world of

>> 'websining' (linking FLOSS and creative workers). FMA's Al

>> Alegre says this is something "beyond our normal comfort

>> zone". This group also is part of Bukas, an "open platform"

>> made up of 17 likeminded organisatinos, to promote the ideals

>> of Free Software and Open Source.

>> 

>>> From South Korea, Jinbonet's PatchA says: "We've been using

>> FLOSS in several activites. Number 1 among these is for our

>> hosting server operation, webmail, and blogs. Also, we have a

>> project to provide internet tool for setting up websitew.  We

>> have held a workshop on how to use FLOSS, (the popular

>> browser) Firefox and (email client) Thunderbird. In Korea

>> people familiar with (proprietorial software's) Microsoft

>> platform. FLOSS is a small community, but growing."

>> 

>> LOCALISATION TOO

>> 

>> Kong 'Da' Sidaroth of the Open Institute at Phnom Penh in

>> Cambodia says: "The FLOSS localisation project (in Cambodia)

>> started because of the idea that there is no computer

>> application available in Khmer. So students, government or

>> officials wanting to use a computer, have to first learn

>> English."

>> 

>> Sidaroth herself graduated in Computer Science and

>> Engineering in 2002, and has worked with non-profits. She

>> attended the Asia Source 2 camp held earlier in 2007 in

>> Indonesia. Source camps are an attempt at promoting links

>> between FLOSS and non-profit organisations.

>> 

>> Sidaroth works on a network for e-learning of knowledge

>> sharing to train institutions and conduct research on the

>> state of e-learning in Cambodia.

>> 

>> "(In the Cambodian localisation-of-software campaign) we

>> translated applications that people already use -- email,

>> internet, office. These software can also be used on a

>> (properietorial) Microsoft platform. But they are all Open

>> Source. People have started to shift to FLOSS (after tools in

>> local langauge came out there)," says she.

>> 

>> In Cambodia, they've also developed training material, and

>> provided training to trainers. Says Sidaroth: "We also work

>> on a FLOSS project in collaboration with the government. We

>> want the government to adopt FLOSS because of the economic

>> situation in the country."

>> 

>> MEMBERS INVOLVED

>> 

>> Chat Ramilo points out that some APC members and individuals

>> have been involved in FLOSS projects in the Asia-Pacific

>> region, such as the Asia Source Camps, and mapping of

>> contributors to FLOSS.

>> 

>> With the 'regionalising' of the IOSN (International Open

>> Source Network), whose agenda is to promote FLOSS in the

>> Asia-Pacific region, non-profit groups hope to work even more

>> actively with the SouthEastAsia+3 regional nodes set up in

>> the area.

>> 

>> In Pakistan, the OSRC (Open Source Resource Centre) has

>> launched an NGO (non-government organisation) toolkit,

>> according to Shahzad of BytesForAll.

>> 

>> Says Chat Ramilo: "Some (APC members) are beginning to look

>> at FLOSS and are interested. Others are plugged into networks

>> doing work into FOSS already. This time (the Asia Source 2

>> camp) had 40% women participation. We did quite a lot of work

>> in recommending as many women as we could."

>> 

>> APC member in the Philippines FMA has argued in another

>> context: "Because of its open and free nature, the use and

>> adoption of FOSS in the Philippines can have profound

>> benefits whether used in the public or private sector. In a

>> landmark research done by the European Commission, it was

>> found that adoption and use of FOSS can result in significant

>> political, economic and social benefits."

>> 

>> FMA believes that "by adopting policies that support or

>> advocate greater and more extensive use of F[L]OSS", the

>> Philippines can reap the benefits of: lower ICT costs;

>> interoperability of systems; vendor independence; better

>> security; decrease software piracy in the country;

>> development of a local ICT industry; increased competition;

>> reduced imports and conservation of foreign exchange; and

>> guaranteed access to information and knowledge.

>> 

>> As FMA puts it, the advantages of FLOSS can no longer be

>> seriously doubted. (ENDS)

>> --

>> Frederick Noronha  Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org

>> E: fred AT bytesforall.org or fredericknoronha AT gmail.com

>> P: +91-832-2409490 M: +91-9970157402

>> Yahoo: fredericknoronha Skype: fredericknoronha GTalk: fredericknoronha

>> 784, Sonarbhat, Near Lourdes Convent, Saligao 403511 Goa India

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:

>>     interider AT npogroups.org

>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:

>>     interider-unsubscribe AT npogroups.org

>> 

>> For all list information and functions, including changing

>> your subscription mode and options, visit the Web page:

>>     http://npogroups.org/lists/info/interider

>> 

> _________________________________________________________________

> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:

>     interider AT npogroups.org

> To be removed from the list, send any message to:

>     interider-unsubscribe AT npogroups.org

> 

> For all list information and functions, including changing

> your subscription mode and options, visit the Web page:

>     http://npogroups.org/lists/info/interider

 

_________________________________________________________________

You received this message as a subscriber on the list:

     interider AT npogroups.org

To be removed from the list, send any message to:

     interider-unsubscribe AT npogroups.org

 

For all list information and functions, including changing

your subscription mode and options, visit the Web page:

     http://npogroups.org/lists/info/interider