Kata Markon

[Karel Hanhart <K.Hanhart AT net.HCC.nl>]

Kata Markon digest wrote:

> GMARK Digest for Saturday, March 31, 2001.
>
> 1. Naked Young Man
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Naked Young Man
> From: "Larry & Sharon Hooge" <thehooges AT home.com>
> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:31:06 -0800
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> I've been working out of town lately.  I just thought I would put my two =
> bits in on this, even though it looks as though the topic has gone to =
> the wayside.
>
> Some have tried to make a direct connection between the "fleeing young =
> man" in the garden and the "young man" in the tomb, saying they're the =
> same person.
>
> I suppose it's possible, but I think that perhaps the writer of Mark =
> only wishes a partial connection here.
>
> Mark loves to have his readers compare 2 passages closely.  Eg., his =
> various intercalations (Markan sandwiches).  "Compare these!", he's =
> saying.

I agree

> He even wishes comparison upon us where intercalation is not happening.  =
> Eg., the parallels between Jesus' 'good' confession at his trial =
> compared to Peter's denials.  (3 questions for each I believe ... (?)).  =
> The two feedings of crowds (5000 and 4000) are another example.  So =
> close in structure in fact that many think that there originally was =
> only 1 feeding (if that).

True. But would you agree that this would be a good argument for the thesis 
that
Mark wrote a SECOND post-70 edition of an earlier "gospel" (or haggadah) in 
the
earlier version there was
just one feeding: Jesus teaching Torah to Israel (5000) while in his
Paul-influenced second edition he added the second edition: feeding of then
nations (4000) plus the startling rebuke of the disciples: "Do you still not
understand?", which is an example of the "Secret" in Mark!.

> separate feedings, albeit structured very closely.  The examples could =
> be multiplied.  "Compare my two healing of blind-man stories!"  "Or take =
> a look at what I do with the Jesus' three passion predictions.  See the =
> close pattern I make in each ... prediction followed by disciple(s) =
> stumbling followed by teaching."  Etc

Where did you write the above interpretations? The two blind men represent a
rebellious
'Judean' and an adherent to Plato's Timaeus. So now also van Iersel..

> In all the above Mark wishes us to make connections, but in none of them =
> does he wish us to merge the two into one.

But 'teaching Torah' or 'being blind' are each covered by the same metaphor.
Only in the case of Jesus is there a contrast. But the same is true, if indeed
the young man or boy neaniskos (dimin.) is 'Paulus' (Lat for 'small, of little
weight)
as I concluded. After all, Paul's breaking through the 'glass ceiling' of
Judaism was
still rather controversial at the time John Mark wrote.
A major obstacle with Zahn's theory ( youth in Gethsemane = author) which I
think
you support is the question why Matthew (and Luke) eliminated this youth.
For in that case, John Mark was literally in Gethsemane. In that case there
would be no
reason to be silent about the presence of this important person in the
community.
But the same is true, if the author wanted his readers to identify with the
author in
his (shameful) uinbelief  and in his telling "the good news".
Most scholars  hold that Mark and Matthew differ in their views of the Law and
that difference
would be akin to the different views of Simon Peter and Paul. on thar score.

But we evidently agree that the two passages have in their very contrasting
content, so much in common that one must conclude one and the same person is
meant.

My interpretation is based on the Pauline influence on Mark. In particular, I
believe the
"mystery of the kingdom" (4,9-11)  is referring the reader to the "mystery" of
Rom 11,25.
Wrede's solution of the socalled 'Messianic Secret' doesnot fit. But 'going to
the Gentiles', - Paul's great theme -, does. The 'mystery' is heavily
underscored by Mark in his post-70 situation, now that a second exile has 
become
a reality. The parousia has been delayed. But the risen Jesus "goes before 
them
into the Galil ha-goyim"..
The authors of "Peter in the New Testament" (Raymond Brown ed.) rightly
underline the fact that 'Simon Peter' is the last named person in Mark; it 
marks
the prominent place of Peter in Mark. This author is NOT anti-Petrine. Peter's
confession and the other passages place Peter in a favorable light; even his
bitter tears. And so is Peter's place in Luke/Acts and John.  Here too, I 
think,
the angelic messenger could well be Paul  [in the spirit]. because  in the
vision of the future (anablepsasai) by the women Paul had already died.  As
Montefiore suggested as early as 1927 "the tomb hewn from the Rock" is part 
of a
midrash. It is a metaphor for the destruction of the first temple by the
Babylonians (cf LXX Isa 22,16). The learned commentator on the Talmud, Rashi,
notes already that in the Jerusalmy (Jerusalem Talmud), Hb BAYT (house) in 
this
section of Isaiah vv 22,15-25  refers to the house of God, the temple!.
So Paul is (in the spirit) telling Peter and the eleven that the new exile 
among
the nations would be a heaven-sent opportunity. God would turn the evil the
Romans had brought upon Jerusalem into good. The good news would reach also 
the
Gentiles.
The advantage of this solution is that it meets the historical reality. The
Jerusalem community (including Peter) were looking askance at Paul's daring
views on the validity of the Law.. But Paul's
ecclesiology of Romans 9 - 11 prevailed in the end.

cordially,

Karel Hanhart   K.Hanhart AT net.HCC.nl

> So I think it is between the two "young men".  Similar, but not the =
> same.  To be identified in some way, but not identicalized.
>
> Personally, I think the "young man" in the garden is the authour of Mark =
> identifying himself to the reader.  "I am an eye witness.  These things =
> are reliable."  I think the similarity he wishes to draw out with the =
> "young man" in the tomb is perhaps that they are both announcing =
> something.  Perhaps the writer of Mark identifies with the young man in =
> the tomb in so far as they are both announcing to their listeners the =
> "good news".  "He is risen!"  This is the gospel.  The climax in Mark's =
> writing.  "Go tell.  Go tell the disciples ..."  Perhaps the writer of =
> Mark sees himself as a fellow heralder of the risen Lord.  A fellow =
> messenger (=3Dangel(?)).  Akin in calling.  Brothers in purpose.  =
> Identified in mind.
>
> I can also envision the writer of Mark perhaps having made something =
> about the clothing the two young men wore, or didn't wear, well before =
> and/or well after having written his gospel. Perhaps he preached or =
> taught using the "two young men" in a 'sermon'(?).  ... To abandon Jesus =
> is to be naked.  To announce him is to be clothed in a white robe.
>
> Larry Hooge,
> Vancouver, B.C.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0B9BC.EE4BA920
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> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been working out of town =
> lately.&nbsp; I just=20
> thought I would put my two bits in on this, even though it looks as =
> though the=20
> topic has gone to the wayside.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some have tried to make a direct =
> connection between=20
> the "fleeing young man" in the garden and the "young man" in the tomb, =
> saying=20
> they're the same person.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I suppose it's possible, but I think =
> that perhaps=20
> the writer of Mark only wishes a partial connection here.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark loves to have his readers compare =
> 2 passages=20
> closely.&nbsp; Eg., his various intercalations (Markan =
> sandwiches).&nbsp;=20
> "Compare these!", he's saying.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He even wishes comparison upon us where =
>
> intercalation is not happening.&nbsp; Eg., the parallels between Jesus' =
> 'good'=20
> confession at his trial compared to Peter's denials.&nbsp; (3 questions =
> for each=20
> I believe ... (?)).&nbsp; The two feedings of crowds (5000 and 4000) are =
> another=20
> example.&nbsp; So close in structure in fact that many think that there=20
> originally was only 1 feeding (if that).&nbsp; But in Mark's narrative, =
> they are=20
> 2 very separate feedings, albeit structured very closely.&nbsp; The =
> examples=20
> could be multiplied.&nbsp; "Compare my two healing of blind-man =
> stories!"&nbsp;=20
> "Or take a look at what I do with the Jesus' three passion =
> predictions.&nbsp;=20
> See the close pattern I make in each ...&nbsp;prediction followed by =
> disciple(s)=20
> stumbling followed by teaching."&nbsp; Etc. </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In all the above Mark wishes us to make =
>
> connections, but in none of them does he wish us to merge the two into =
> one.=20
> Peter is not Jesus.&nbsp; The two feedings, though very similar, are two =
>
> feedings.&nbsp; The two blind men are two blind men.&nbsp; The writer =
> begs us to=20
> make the connection, but not the merging.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So I think it is between the two "young =
> men".&nbsp;=20
> Similar, but not the same.&nbsp; To be identified in some way, but not=20
> identicalized.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Personally, I think the "young man" in =
> the garden=20
> is the authour of Mark identifying himself to the reader.&nbsp; "I am an =
> eye=20
> witness.&nbsp; These things are reliable."&nbsp; I think the similarity =
> he=20
> wishes to draw out with the "young man" in the tomb is perhaps that they =
> are=20
> both announcing something.&nbsp; Perhaps the writer of Mark identifies =
> with the=20
> young man in the tomb in so far as they are both announcing to their =
> listeners=20
> the "good news".&nbsp; "He is risen!"&nbsp; This is the gospel.&nbsp; =
> The climax=20
> in Mark's writing.&nbsp; "Go tell.&nbsp; Go tell the disciples =
> ..."&nbsp;=20
> Perhaps the writer of Mark sees himself as a fellow heralder of the =
> risen=20
> Lord.&nbsp; A fellow messenger (=3Dangel(?)).&nbsp;&nbsp;Akin in =
> calling.&nbsp;=20
> Brothers in purpose.&nbsp; Identified in mind.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can also envision the writer of Mark =
> perhaps=20
> having made something about the clothing the two young men wore, or =
> didn't wear,=20
> well before and/or well after having written his gospel. Perhaps he =
> preached or=20
> taught using the "two young men" in a 'sermon'(?).&nbsp; ... To abandon =
> Jesus is=20
> to be naked.&nbsp; To announce him is to be clothed in a white=20
> robe.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry Hooge,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vancouver, =
> B.C.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
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