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Subject: Compost Teas: 24 hour, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts

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  • From: m.norsen AT attbi.com
  • To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Cc: Kirk AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu, Douglas AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu
  • Subject: [Compostteas] Re:testing
  • Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 04:47:09 +0000

Kirk - Your testing ideas are logical. After spending
a week at SFI I know testing is not simple. Your test
seems to have merit but you would have to calibrate that
system with some form a testing that verified what you
learn from your test. Like at SFI theu can deterine the
differenc between nematodes as well as estimate bacteria
and fungi. And much more. But like you say expensive
and time delays.

Can I suggest and Elaine - your input is needed here -
I think a brewer that has reserve DO capacity, operated
with known input compost and nutrients can be relied on
to produce similar TEA time after time. Frequent
testing to verify the trend of the product but don't exp
[ect to test every load and certainly not before the TEA
is used. The brewer we developed holds DO at 8 + - .5
very steady. We have decided to make it available to
others.

But a brewer is like a PC. It is a tool. The compost
is like the software. The nutrients are like the
operator. It takes all three to make a reliable product
and some careful t4esting at intervals to know that it
is being done right. Anyone agree? Bob Norsen
> Send Compostteas mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Oxygen meters (William Kruidenier)
> 2. O2 meter web site (CreatGardn AT aol.com)
> 3. Re: O2 meters (Tom Jaszewski)
> 4. Re: Compostteas digest, Vol 1 #67 - 3 msgs (m.norsen AT attbi.com)
> 5. CT Recipe (Tony Ortigoza)
> 6. subscribe to list (jbj)
> 7. Reply to Testing, Testing, Testing (Soilfoodweb AT aol.com)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:16:24 -0400
> To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> From: William Kruidenier <williamk AT carolina.rr.com>
> Subject: [Compostteas] Oxygen meters
>
> Jeff,
>
> For oxygen meters try Aquatic Ecosystems in Florida --
> http://www.aquaticeco.com/
>
> If you don't see it on the web site call them -- they have almost
> everything related to aquaculture.
>
> William K.
> --
>
>
> William M. Kruidenier
> Basileia Productions
> 5118 Weatherly Way
> Matthews, NC 28104
> Phone: 704-821-2528
> Mobile: 704-649-9559
> Fax: 419-793-0033
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: CreatGardn AT aol.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:28:25 EDT
> To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [Compostteas] O2 meter web site
>
>
> --part1_cb.24c9c853.2a5dbaa9_boundary
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> Hi there.... the best web site so far is www.aquariuminstruments.com
> I just recived mine .. easy to use. The whole package with shipping was
> under $300.00 us$ it only took a few days to get it too. I'll let you
> know
> in a week or so how it is going with it.
> :) Seaneen
>
> --part1_cb.24c9c853.2a5dbaa9_boundary
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> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi there....&nbsp; the best
> web
> site so far is&nbsp;&nbsp;
> <B><I><U>www.aquariuminstruments.com</B></I></U>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
> I just recived mine .. easy to use.&nbsp; The whole package with shipping
> was
> under $300.00 us$&nbsp; it only took a few days to get it too.&nbsp;&nbsp;
> I'll
> let you know in a week or so how it is going with it.<BR>
> :) Seaneen</FONT></HTML>
>
> --part1_cb.24c9c853.2a5dbaa9_boundary--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Tom Jaszewski" <tomj AT lvcm.com>
> To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [Compostteas] O2 meters
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:12:34 -0700
>
> Jeff,
>
> I have had good service from Davis Instruments
> http://www.davisontheweb.com/showpage.asp?L3ID=556 . I got some
> recommendations from Dr. Piatkowski and went with an Extech DO meter with a
> data logger
> http://www.extech.com/WhatsNew/PDF_datasheet/Datasheets_English/407510.pdf
> I went to an electronics supply company http://www.kiesub.com/ handling
> Extech meters and special ordered for a bit less than Grainger
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml I also have a YSI 550, and
> it is a pain to calibrate but I am getting better, I don't like it because
> it doesn't automatically poll and record values. I'll keep the group up with
> this adventure as it continues to unfold.
>
> I have some fears in this discussion of DO. I think we are mistaken if we
> are giving those interested in brewing the impression that a DO meter is
> needed to produce good quality tea. Buying a meter begins to make brewing an
> expensive proposition. I believe it is up to us, with reliable lab data and
> competent researchers, to try to establish some standards for designs that
> will meet O2 requirements. I'm certainly
> not implying this group should be less scientific, just apprehensive that
> we'll take this rather simple technique (CT) out of the hands of interested
> small scale gardeners.
>
> $.02
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
> To: <m.norsen AT attbi.com>; <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: <Scott AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>;
> <Alexander AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 10:38 PM
> Subject: [Compostteas] O2 meters
>
>
> > Where is the best web site for oxygen meter purchases?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Compostteas mailing list
> > Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
> >
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: m.norsen AT attbi.com
> To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org, att:, Jeff AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:53:16 +0000
> Subject: [Compostteas] Re: Compostteas digest, Vol 1 #67 - 3 msgs
>
> O2 meter? Got mine at Grainger. same as the one Elaine
> uses. Extech Model # 407510 ver.1.7 03/02. I don't
> know what the numbers are for. Read and believe the
> directions, especially when it says let it settle down
> after you turn it on. 15 minute is frever but that is
> how long it takes. I refreshed all my four letter words
> but it has finally got me trained. Bob Norsen.
> > Send Compostteas mailing list submissions to
> > compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> >
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> > compostteas-admin AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Compostteas digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Testing (Brett Kacalek)
> > 2. Re: Compostteas digest, Vol 1 #66 - 2 msgs (m.norsen AT attbi.com)
> > 3. O2 meters (Jeff Lowenfels)
> >
> > -- __--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > From: "Brett Kacalek" <bjworks AT wwdb.org>
> > To: <Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:17:37 -0700
> > Subject: [Compostteas] Testing
> >
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2276C.909BDC40
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="us-ascii"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > What do you recommend by way of testing? Do you send in for counts on
> > your brews or is there some sort of test that can be done at the brew
> > site?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Brett Kacalek
> >
> > Earthworks Landscape Service, Inc.
> >
> > 503-651-POND (7663)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2276C.909BDC40
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> > <html>
> >
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> > </head>
> >
> > <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>
> >
> > <div class=3DSection1>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> > font-family:Arial'>What do you recommend by way of testing?&nbsp; Do you =
> > send in for
> > counts on your brews or is there some sort of test that can be done at =
> > the brew
> > site?</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> > font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> > font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> > font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>Brett Kacalek</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>Earthworks Landscape Service, Inc.</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> > font-family:Arial'>503-651-POND (7663)</span></font></p>
> >
> > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>
> >
> > </div>
> >
> > </body>
> >
> > </html>
> >
> > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2276C.909BDC40--
> >
> >
> > -- __--__--
> >
> > Message: 2
> > From: m.norsen AT attbi.com
> > To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Cc: Scott AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu, Alexander AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu
> > Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 04:32:39 +0000
> > Subject: [Compostteas] Re: Compostteas digest, Vol 1 #66 - 2 msgs
> >
> > Verify what I am saying with SFI. You are putting far
> > more nutrients in the tea than any O2 generator can cope
> > with. The brewer is supposed to take moderately small
> > quantities of bacteria, fungi etc with noderate
> > quatities of nutrients and multiply by 10,000 or so to
> > make tea. You started with all that the tea needed,
> > generated more microbes and then added more nutrients.
> >
> > I just did the same at SFI last week and got the same
> > results. A brewer that slways stays at 7.5 to 8.5 with
> > the normal feeding got behind within 20 minutes of
> > overfeed. I doubled the aeration rate and the brew stll
> > went to 1.5 over night. Just took some added humic and
> > some fish. Not a whole lot of eaither, added to a brew
> > already at 2,400 bacteria.
> >
> > suggest you use far less to start with and brew 24
> > hours, then use it. But like I said ask SFI about what
> > you are doing. Bob Norsen.
> > > Send Compostteas mailing list submissions to
> > > compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > compostteas-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > compostteas-admin AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Compostteas digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Confused (Scott Alexander)
> > > 2. church expansion/donation (WINNIE IKIMI)
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > From: "Scott Alexander" <daylily AT bigpond.com>
> > > To: <Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:33:34 +1000
> > > Subject: [Compostteas] Confused
> > >
> > > Armed with my new dissolved oxygen meter, thermometer, and pH meter, I
> > > began
> > > another brew Sunday 12 noon. I was going to experiment a little with
> > > this
> > > one by putting in a bag (made from shade cloth) of 10 kg of fungal
> > > dominated
> > > material [forest litter, turkey's nest compost (this native turkey which
> > > makes a big nest of forest litter and the composting process hatches the
> > > eggs), and soil and some of the mulch above it which had lots of fungal
> > > threads through it].
> > > I also put an onion bag each of alfalfa and organic mulch hay (taken
> > > from
> > > the garden & it had lots of springtails in it) in the tank.
> > > To the 700 litres of water, I added 3 litres of humic acid, 1 litre aloe
> > > vera juice, two tablespoons of saponin powder.
> > > The dissolved oxygen was 8ppm (I had been oxygenating the water for a 18
> > > hours beforehand and also heating it to 24 Celsius) when I added the
> > > compost
> > > and liquids and it dropped to 7.6 ppm and remained at that level until
> > > 10 am
> > > Monday.
> > >
> > > At 10 am I added the next lot of material ( a big bag of 20 kg of
> > > bacterial
> > > dominated compost, worm castings and two whole daylily plants including
> > > the
> > > soil around the roots), 2 litres of molasses, and 3 litres of a blend of
> > > fish, kelp, and fulvic acid.
> > >
> > > The above is almost the same proportions, mixtures etc as the brew which
> > > gave me 1300 total bacteria and 8.55 total fungi after 48 hours (except
> > > there was about 5 kg more compost).
> > >
> > > Now here's the problem. I had to switch off the pump and oxygenator for
> > > 10
> > > minutes while I added the extra compost and when I measured the D O
> > > levels
> > > again it was minus 2. This was checked by an observer who also had a D
> > > O
> > > meter. I had expected the levels to climb but now, 21 hours later, it is
> > > still around the minus 1.8 - 1.9 level.
> > >
> > > There is a good head of foam, the pH is 7.6, and the temp. is at 22.5
> > > Celsius AND IT SMELLS OK (the air temp was a chilly 6 celsius so I put
> > > my
> > > hands in the tea to keep them warm while I contemplated my dilemma :-))
> > >
> > > What is going on? Was this happening before as well - only this time i
> > > have
> > > a D O meter?
> > > When CT assays are done, are anaerobic organisms counted as well?
> > >
> > > Its 9.30 am and I will go back to the farm and remove the composts &
> > > hay and
> > > continue the brew and see what happens next.
> > >
> > > LEAF SAP pH
> > > Is there anyone in the group who is famaliar with these levels. We
> > > tested
> > > leaf sap pH on a few daylilies and found that all were around the 5.6
> > > to 6
> > > pH. I was told they should be around the 6.4 to 6.6 level.
> > >
> > > Scott Alexander
> > > Maleny
> > > Queensland
> > > AUSTRALIA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > From: "WINNIE IKIMI" <winnie AT yahoo.com>
> > > Reply-To: winnie-ikimi AT excite.com
> > > To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 05:58:08 -0600
> > > Subject: [Compostteas] church expansion/donation
> > >
> > > My Lordship,my dear, Calvary greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus
> > > Christ,
> I
> > > am former Mrs. Limota Mohammed, now Mrs. Winnie Ikimi, a widow to Late
> > > Sheik
> > > Mohammed Ikimi. I am 62 years old, I am now a new Christian convert,
> suffering
> > > from long time cancer of the breast, from all indications, that my
> > > condition
> > is
> > > really deteriorating and is quite obvious that I won't live more than
> > > six >
> > months, because the cancer stage has gotten to a very bad stage. My late
> husband
> > > was killed during the Gulf war, and during the period of our marriage
> > > we
> > > couldn't produce any child. My late husband was very wealthy and after
> > > his
> > > death, I inherited all his business and wealth. The doctor has advised
> > > me
> that
> > I
> > > may not live for more than six months, so I now decided to divide part
> > > of
> this
> > > wealth, to contribute to the development of the church in Africa,
> > > America,
> > > Europe and Asian Countries. This mission which will no doubt be tasking
> > > had
> > made
> > > me to relocate to Nigeria, Africa where I live presentl!
> > > y. I was introduced to you through the spiritual rhelm and i prayed
> > > over it,
> I
> > > am willing to donate the sum of $10.000,000.00 Million United State
> > > Dollars
> to
> > > your Church via you for the development of your church and also for the
> > > less
> > > privileged. Please note that, this fund is lying in a Security Company
> abroad,
> > > and be prepared to travel to clear the consignment. Lastly I honestly
> > > pray
> > that > this money when transferred will be used for the said purpose,
> > because
> I
> > have
> > > come to find out that wealth acquisition without Christ is vanity upon
> vanity.
> > > If you have to die says the Lord, keep fit and I will give you the
> > > crown of
> > > life. May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the
> > > fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you (AMEN). I await your urgent
> > > reply.
> > > Yours in Christ Winnie Ikimi No 3A Mohammed Avenue Safari Close.
> > > Kaduna.
> > > Nigeria.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Compostteas mailing list
> > > Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
> > >
> > >
> > > End of Compostteas Digest
> >
> > -- __--__--
> >
> > Message: 3
> > From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
> > To: <m.norsen AT attbi.com>, <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Cc: <Scott AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>,
> > <Alexander AT happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu>
> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:38:14 -0800
> > Subject: [Compostteas] O2 meters
> >
> > Where is the best web site for oxygen meter purchases?
> >
> >
> >
> > -- __--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Compostteas mailing list
> > Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
> >
> >
> > End of Compostteas Digest
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "Tony Ortigoza" <Tortigoza AT msn.com>
> To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:02:17 -0600
> Subject: [Compostteas] CT Recipe
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> Jeff.=20
>
> I just looking for a good CT recipe to be use on Lawn
>
> Thank you
>
> Tony
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
>
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> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
> New Roman"=20
> size=3D3>Jeff. </FONT></P>
> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
> New Roman"=20
> size=3D3>I just looking for a good CT recipe to be use on =
> Lawn</FONT></P>
> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
> New Roman"=20
> size=3D3>Thank you</FONT></P>
> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
> New Roman"=20
> size=3D3>Tony</FONT></P>
> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
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> face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
> size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>
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> Message: 6
> From: "jbj" <jbj AT access995.com>
> To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:18:03 -0400
> Subject: [Compostteas] subscribe to list
>
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> Message: 7
> From: Soilfoodweb AT aol.com
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:41:50 EDT
> To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> CC: kirkleon AT teleport.com
> Subject: [Compostteas] Reply to Testing, Testing, Testing
>
>
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>
> Hi Kirk -
>
> I am sorry to be so slow in answering some questions, but let me give you a
> clue
> about asking questions and getting answers from me.
>
> One question at a time is more likely to get answered than dozens in one
> e-mail. The older I get the greater my attention deficit, I'm afraid.....
>
> I understand the testing thing, and I think we can say that it you do a
> series of teas and learn what the color, smell and feel of your tea is, and
> then send a tea sample in for testing, and learn that it is good tea, then
> you know the characteristics of a good tea. As long as your teas have
> those
> qualities you learned are good, then things are fine. When the tea quality
> changes or is different, that's when you might not want to use the tea, or
> test it again.
>
> The paper towel test you suggest is a version of paper chromatography.
> This
> is a version of the chroma tests used by the Luebkes and by George Liedig,
> if
> I remember correctly. George runs Autrusa and sells the Sandberger
> turners.
> Good machines. He used to teach composting classes, but I don't think he
> does that anymore. Anyway, the chroma test is a more complicated version
> of
> what you suggest, but does tell you very interesting information.
>
> Chromatography separates out different size molecules based on smaller
> molecules diffuse farther. There is extreme importance to the texture and
> composition of the paper towel you use. But, given that you keep these
> things constant, or as constant as possible given the variation in quality
> of
> towel material, this approach should be very useful.
>
> Thank you for suggesting it! Could we work with you to correlate the data
> you have gotten so far, with the SFI methods? The paper towel approach
> would
> be a much easier way to tell from a grower point of view! Just have to
> know
> what the pattern on the towels meant!
>
> Ya, Thanks! Can you call me, or can we touch base soon?
>
> Elaine
>
>
> > Dear Elaine, et al -- I'm a new subscriber enjoying this CT forum. I've
> > been making and selling tea at a farmers market in small quantities since
> > last year. I have devised one test I rely on to tell me if I've got OK
> > tea.
> > I would like to be able to do more testing but cost and time relevance are
> > prohibitive.
> >
> > I would suggest that specific brewers and nutrient formulae are important
> > but not nearly as important right now as is being able to test what you've
> > got when it needs to be used. I think we would all agree that using CT as
> > soon after brewing as possible is the right way to go. We need a simple,
> > cheap, well-calibrated way to check CT on-site in real time if any of the
> > experimentation we are all doing is to be validated anytime soon. What
> > instruments and parameters can we agree on and get propogated out there
> > affordably? Is there an opportunity for someone to put out a standard $10
> > kit that can tell us we're on track with current batches? I think there
> > is
> > but what it is is beyond me.
> >
> > The simple test I devised was an indicator of suspended biomass in the
> > tea,
> > I think. I used paper towel strips dipped into the tea every few hours
> > and
> > found clear differences in the way they felt and smelled over time. I
> > thought there might have been some color differences, but there was
> > little.
> > After the strips dried, the feel of each strip differed dramatically,
> > though, so I know I was measuring something, and I convinced myself it was
> > biomass in two ways: If it was bacterial, the stiffening of the paper
> > was a
> > sign of bacterial slime, and if it was fungal, it was hyphae grabbing onto
> > the paper fibers. Now is that a solid scientific insight or what?
> >
> > Help! I want to test my stuff better but it needs to be affordable, quick
> > and reliable, or it's not worth it. If it's not worth it (i.e., not
> > economic) CT progress lags, both economically and scientifically.... We
> > need easy tests we can do ourselves that are calibrated with an
> > international standard kit that supports consistent results and
> > validatable
> > reports. Ya?
> >
> > -- Kirk Leoanrd
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --part1_194.99d0465.2a5ef32e_boundary
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica>Hi Kirk -
> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>
> <BR>I am sorry to be so slow in answering some questions, but let me give
> you a
> clue </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0">
> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0">about asking questions and getting answers from me. </FONT><FONT
> COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
> <BR>
> <BR>One question at a time is more likely to get answered than dozens in
> one
> e-mail. &nbsp;The older I get the greater my attention deficit, I'm
> afraid.....
> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0">
> <BR>I understand the testing thing, and I think we can say that it you do a
> series of teas and learn what the color, smell and feel of your tea is, and
> then
> send a tea sample in for testing, and learn that it is good tea, then you
> know > the characteristics of a good tea. &nbsp;As long as your teas have
> those
> qualities you learned are good, then things are fine. &nbsp;When the tea
> quality
> changes or is different, that's when you might not want to use the tea, or
> test
> it again. &nbsp;
> <BR>
> <BR>The paper towel test you suggest is a version of paper chromatography.
> &nbsp;This is a version of the chroma tests used by the Luebkes and by
> George
> Liedig, if I remember correctly. &nbsp;George runs Autrusa and sells the
> Sandberger turners. &nbsp;Good machines. &nbsp;He used to teach composting
> classes, but I don't think he does that anymore. &nbsp;Anyway, the chroma
> test
> is a more complicated &nbsp;version of what you suggest, but does tell you
> very
> interesting information.
> <BR>
> <BR>Chromatography separates out different size molecules based on smaller
> molecules diffuse farther. &nbsp;There is extreme importance to the texture
> and
> composition of the paper towel you use. &nbsp;But, given that you keep
> these > things constant, or as constant as possible given the variation in
> quality of
> towel material, this approach should be very useful. &nbsp;
> <BR>
> <BR>Thank you for suggesting it! &nbsp;Could we work with you to correlate
> the
> data you have gotten so far, with the SFI methods? &nbsp;The paper towel
> approach would be a much easier way to tell from a grower point of view!
> &nbsp;Just have to know what the pattern on the towels meant!
> <BR>
> <BR>Ya, Thanks! &nbsp;Can you call me, or can we touch base soon? &nbsp;
> <BR>
> <BR>Elaine
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
> MARGIN-LEFT:
> 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Dear Elaine, et al -- I'm a new
> subscriber enjoying this CT forum. &nbsp;I've
> <BR>been making and selling tea at a farmers market in small quantities
> since
> <BR>last year. &nbsp;I have devised one test I rely on to tell me if I've
> got OK
> tea.
> <BR>I would like to be able to do more testing but cost and time relevance
> are
> <BR>prohibitive.
> <BR>
> <BR>I would suggest that specific brewers and nutrient formulae are
> important
> <BR>but not nearly as important right now as is being able to test what
> you've
> <BR>got when it needs to be used. &nbsp;I think we would all agree that
> using CT
> as
> <BR>soon after brewing as possible is the right way to go. &nbsp;We need a
> simple,
> <BR>cheap, well-calibrated way to check CT on-site in real time if any of
> the
> <BR>experimentation we are all doing is to be validated anytime soon.
> &nbsp;What
> <BR>instruments and parameters can we agree on and get propogated out there
> <BR>affordably? &nbsp;Is there an opportunity for someone to put out a
> standard
> $10
> <BR>kit that can tell us we're on track with current batches? &nbsp;I think
> there is
> <BR>but what it is is beyond me.
> <BR>
> <BR>The simple test I devised was an indicator of suspended biomass in the
> tea,
> <BR>I think. &nbsp;I used paper towel strips dipped into the tea every few
> hours
> and
> <BR>found clear differences in the way they felt and smelled over time.
> &nbsp;I
> <BR>thought there might have been some color differences, but there was
> little.
> <BR>After the strips dried, the feel of each strip differed dramatically,
> <BR>though, so I know I was measuring something, and I convinced myself it
> was
> <BR>biomass in two ways: &nbsp;If it was bacterial, the stiffening of the
> paper
> was a
> <BR>sign of bacterial slime, and if it was fungal, it was hyphae grabbing
> onto
> <BR>the paper fibers. &nbsp;Now is that a solid scientific insight or what?
> <BR>
> <BR>Help! &nbsp;I want to test my stuff better but it needs to be
> affordable,
> quick
> <BR>and reliable, or it's not worth it. &nbsp;If it's not worth it (i.e.,
> not
> <BR>economic) CT progress lags, both economically and scientifically....
> &nbsp;We
> <BR>need easy tests we can do ourselves that are calibrated with an
> <BR>international standard kit that supports consistent results and
> validatable
> <BR>reports. &nbsp;Ya?
> <BR>
> <BR>-- Kirk Leoanrd
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0">
> <BR></FONT></HTML>
>
> --part1_194.99d0465.2a5ef32e_boundary--
>
>
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>
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> Compostteas mailing list
> Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>
> End of Compostteas Digest



  • [Compostteas] Re:testing, m . norsen, 07/12/2002

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