Compost Teas: 24 hour, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts

["D" <madhava AT fidalgo.net>]

I found Elaine's comment "The actinobacteria are really hard on the
beneficial fungi." very interesting.

Is it possible that by using compost tea that is not properly balanced we
could do more harm than good in the long run to our soilfoodweb.

From what Elaine said it sounds like people using EM could suffer from a
serious lack of beneficial fungi in the future.

Could CT's cause similar problems?  If we don't have a balanced mix in the
tea or if the mix of organisms is thrown out of whack by filters and spray
equipment.

I look a the N-P-K situation.  When people first started focusing on those
Nutrients they were having great results.  Now, so many years later that
trip has turned into a nightmare.

I get nervous messing to much with mama nature and trying to do too much
adding or subtracting.

I'm a big fan of the idea of compost tea and plan on using it but at the
same time I'm a little nervous.....

Daniel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
To: "D" <madhava AT fidalgo.net>; <eddington AT lvcm.com>;
<Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: [Compostteas] Some info re EM in response to D


> I asked Dr. Elaine to respond with regard to EM. Her remarks are on
target.
> So far not one on this list has mentioned, say, protozoa. We can have all
> the bacteria we want. Without something to eat them, and on up the soil or
> foliar foodweb, there would be little reason for compost teas......
>
> Anyhow, here is the response:
>
> With respect to EM, when the group first came to the US, their cultures of
> bacteria weren't appropriate for the US.  They then cultured indigenous
> species, and the EM trials I have seen are very good for developing the
> FIRST STEP in getting the life  back into the soil.
>
> But, remember, the FOODWEB is more than just bacteria!!!!!
>
> Please, remember that.  You start with getting the bacteria back into the
> soil in the proper numbers for the plant you want to grow, because you
have
> to build the microaggregates, begin to build nutrient retention, start to
> suppress the disease organisms.
>
> But that's JOB ONE.  You have many more jobs to go!
>
> Job TWO is to get the fungi back into the soil.  Fungi take the
> microaggregates built by the bacteria and turn them into macroaggregates
> that you can see with your eyes.  This is the foundation of your soil
house.
> Earthworms do the same thing, by inoculating fungi and setting up the
> environment to help the fungi grow.  So, we get the foundations for good
> soil structure started.
>
> EM has no fungi.  Just bacteria and actinobacteria (used to be called
> actinomycetes, but they ARE NOT fungi).  There are No Fungi in EM.
>
> The actinobacteria are really hard on the beneficial fungi.  Very
> inhibitory.  There are some pretty clear negative effects of Streptomyces,
> the actinobacterium in EM, on VAM and ecto colonization.
>
> There are no foods to maintain fungi in the EM amendment.  And JOB THREE
is
> to maintain the bacteria and fungi, by adding the correct foods.  EM
doesn't
> have fungal foods.
>
> No protozoa, no beneficial nematodes, no mycorrhizal inoculum in EM.
>
> So, EM is a great first step.  But only the first step.
>
> But, being the, hum, how do I put this?  Ok, let's be blunt, cheap person
> that I am, I would rather buy a little bit of a bacterial inoculum and
> multiply it in the tea brewer.  Now, EM will not guarantee their product
if
> you do that, because they don't know which species you increased, or did
not
> increase.  Were the foods in your tea brewer the ones to grow the whole
> diversity of bacteria in the EM product.  Questionable.
>
> There are about 120 species of bacteria in EM.  How many species in
compost?
> Minimum number, 5,000.  Maximum number, in a good compost?  25,000 to
maybe
> 30,000.  So, in terms of diversity, which do you want?  Hands down,
compost.
>
> But in terms of convenience?  EM.
>
> Please realize that the EM product is most appropriate for the southwest.
> If I lived in Illinois, I'd get the Agri-Energy bacterial inoculum.  Much
> more appropriate for that part of the world.  And hands down the best, if
> you are growing corn or wheat in the eastern part of the Mid-west.  Please
> mention that I recommended their product, if you call them for info, OK?
> Sometimes when I'm not glowing about someone's product in all situations,
> all over the country, they get ticked at me.  I think that happened here.
>
> In the western part of the mid-west, I think (ok, look out, think is
fairly
> different from I know, all right?  When I think something, it means maybe
> there isn't a whole lot of  data to back the statement up.  When something
> "is", then there's data to back up the statement).
>
> Sorry for the tangent.  Western part of the mid-West, Mid-West Biological
> Systems are the folks to talk to.
>
> Bruce Tainio has a great inoculum for the areas in the mountain west.
He's
> in Spokane.  New Era Farm Service has a great inoculum for the California
> Valleys.  There are some many others.  Helena Chemical Company has a GREAT
> inoculum -- a herd of beneficial bacteria, especially for those places
where
> chemicals have been really hard on the soil.  They recognize that they
only
> have some 15 to 18 species, but they are the species that quickly start to
> form soil structure and suppress diseases.
>
> So, which inoculum to choose?  The one most local.  They are more likely
to
> have the beneficial bacterial species adapted for your climate.
>
> So, which is "better"?  This is rather nonsensical actually.  Which is
> better?  Just breakfast, or all three meals?
>
> Something like EM is like feeding yourself just breakfast.  You need lunch
> and dinner too.  Maybe the midnight snack.
>
> Compost tea is all the meals in one.  CT adds all those other beneficial
> organisms, not just the bacteria.
>
> With any bacterial inoculum, you then have to move on to find a fungal
> inoculum.  A protozoan inoculum.  A nematode inoculum.  A mycorrhizal
> inoculum.
>
> You decide for yourself what you want to do.  Use the bacterial inoculum
> because it's convenient, while you learn how to do compost tea correctly?
> Sounds logical to me!
>
> Elaine Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.  www.soilfoodweb.com
> Affiliate Faculty, Southern Cross University, NSW
>
> ______________________________________________
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>
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