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  • From: Neil Leyton <nleyton AT gmail.com>
  • To: Andres Guadamuz <a.guadamuz AT ed.ac.uk>, creative-friends AT lists.essential.org, cc-uk <cc-uk AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc: Russell McOrmond <russell AT flora.ca>
  • Subject: Re: [Cc-uk] RE: [Creative-friends] CC for music -- legal question
  • Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 08:44:59 +0400

Greetings all,

This is a very good question - you see, in music, the copyright is
generally divided into two components: a particular recording of the
song (the "mechanical") and the musical and lyrical ideas that make up
that song (the "publishing". I always assumed CC licenses applied
equally to both, because generally you cannot use a recording (ie.
remix a mechanical) without the approval from the music publisher
(and/or writer, as the case may be).

When we began licensing our records via CC most of our artist roster
understood this to be the case, and opted for the
Attribution-NonComm-ShareAlike (which allows remixing ONLY when it is
done for NonCommercial purposes and licensed under the same CC
license) or the Attr-NonComm-NoDerivs license.

One very fearful artist decided he was reluctant to go this route at
all, and contacted CC asking them whether a license that he applied to
a particular recording of one song would carry through to a different
recording of the same song; the answer, reportedly, was "Yes" from
someone at CC (not sure who he spoke to). That means that yes, it does
apply to both the recording AND the publishing, ie. the full
copyright.

There is little or no difference in the music biz between the
"publishing" (ie. rights administratin) of lyrics vs. music, ie. they
are both part of the same publishing rights, just credited separately
sometimes for artistic reasons.

Hope that helps explain things a little.

Neil Leyton


On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:06:55 -0000, Andres Guadamuz <a.guadamuz AT ed.ac.uk>
wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I have to agree with you. I would only point out that we can assume that
> most people who are offering their sound recordings through CC licences are
> not particularly litigious and will not initiate infringement suits for
> lyrics vs. sound recordings.
>
> BTW, I am copying this to the CC-UK list to get feedback from more people.
>
> -------------------------
> Andres Guadamuz
> AHRB Research Centre for Studies in
> Intellectual Property and Technology Law
> Old College, South Bridge
> Edinburgh EH8 9YL
>
> Tel: 44 (0)131 6509699
> Fax: 44 (0)131 6506317
> a.guadamuz AT ed.ac.uk
> http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrb/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org
> [mailto:creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org] On Behalf Of Tom Chance
> Sent: 07 March 2005 14:49
> To: creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> Subject: Re: [Creative-friends] CC for music -- legal question
>
> Andres,
>
> Can you help me understand one more thing then? If it only covers the
> recording, what use is it? I mean, if somebody uses the very liberal
> Attribution license, they are saying: you can remix and rework my music in
> any way you wish, and then you can distribute it as you wish.
>
> But it seems like you can't, because as soon as you do any of that you're
> violating the copyright on the components of the composition.
>
> Isn't that right? If it is, it basically makes CC licenses useless for
> music, surely, unless the artist is savvy enough to say that the license
> covers every component?
>
> Regards,
> Tom
>
> On Monday 07 Mar 2005 14:39, Andres Guadamuz wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > I understand now, that is a very good question. From reading a Generic
> > (read American) standard music CC licence, it seems evident that it is
> > written with sound recordings in mind, as the grant specifies that the
> > user will have the following rights:
> >
> > "to distribute copies or phonorecords of, display publicly, perform
> > publicly, and perform publicly by means of a digital audio
> > transmission the Work including as incorporated in Collective Works;"
> >
> > Therefore, I will retract myself and state that the licence only
> > covers whatever work is being offered (usually a sound recording), as
> > I think that it is good legal practice to assume that the licence is
> > only for the specific work that is being offered at the moment. In
> > other words, if you are releasing an MP3 version of your song and
> > distribute it with a CC licence, then I believe that you are only
> > licensing the sound recording. In a perfect world, each of the
> > components should be licensed separately, but I am aware that there
> > may be a lot of confusion from artists about this, and that we need to
> > generate more awareness it this area.
> >
> > I think that this is a problem that that CC is aware of, but I don't
> > see any specific recommendations from them. The only one that
> > resembles this problem (that I can find) is this one:
> >
> > http://creativecommons.org/learn/artistscorners/musicians#special
> >
> > BTW, good question, I will be interested to see what others have to
> > say.
> >
> > Andres
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org
> > [mailto:creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org] On Behalf Of Tom
> > Chance
> > Sent: 07 March 2005 14:03
> > To: creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > Subject: Re: [Creative-friends] CC for music -- legal question
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I realise that you can choose, but what I'm wondering is when people
> > don't make it explicit. I haven't come across a single CC-licensed
> > piece of music where the owner says something like "only the recording
> > is CC-licensed".
> >
> > Surely it's a bit pointless to release a recording under, say, the
> > Attribution licence if you reserve all rights for the score, lyrics
> > and so on?
> >
> > Do artists need to be explicit about what exactly they're releasing,
> > or is it safe to assume that when a piece of music is put up under a
> > CC license, they are licensing all rights?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tom
> >
> > On Monday 07 Mar 2005 13:47, Andres Guadamuz wrote:
> > > I would say that in most cases it is "all of the above", but it
> > > really depends on what is being licensed, and whether the author(s)
> > > owns all of the assignable copyrights. IMO, it is acceptable to CC
> > > license just the lyrics, or just the recording.
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > > Andres Guadamuz
> > > AHRB Research Centre for Studies in
> > > Intellectual Property and Technology Law
> > > Old College, South Bridge
> > > Edinburgh EH8 9YL
> > >
> > > Tel: 44 (0)131 6509699
> > > Fax: 44 (0)131 6506317
> > > a.guadamuz AT ed.ac.uk
> > > http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrb/
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org
> > > [mailto:creative-friends-admin AT lists.essential.org] On Behalf Of Tom
> > > Chance
> > > Sent: 07 March 2005 12:25
> > > To: creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > > Subject: [Creative-friends] CC for music -- legal question
> > >
> > >
> > > Ahoy,
> > >
> > > Just a thought that has come up from Remix Reading
> > > (www.remixreading.org) after the discussion about copyright terms,
> > > Elvis and Scott Loplin...
> > >
> > > If someone puts a piece of music up on the web and tags it with a CC
> > > license, what are they licensing? The recording? The score? The
> > > lyrics? All of the above?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Tom
> > >
> > > --
> > > I'm aware that e-mails to me may be blocked by my host because they
> > > are mistaken as spam. If this happens, please e-mail me at:
> > > telex4 AT yahoo.com _______________________________________________
> > > Creative-friends mailing list Creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/creative-friends
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Creative-friends mailing list Creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/creative-friends
> >
> > --
> > I'm aware that e-mails to me may be blocked by my host because they
> > are mistaken as spam. If this happens, please e-mail me at:
> > telex4 AT yahoo.com _______________________________________________
> > Creative-friends mailing list Creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/creative-friends
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Creative-friends mailing list Creative-friends AT lists.essential.org
> > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/creative-friends
>
> --
> I'm aware that e-mails to me may be blocked by my host
> because they are mistaken as spam. If this happens,
> please e-mail me at: telex4 AT yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/creative-friends
>
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