Cc-hk mailing list

[Henry Oh <henryoh AT gmail.com>]

Hello everyone,

In an effort to maximize the amount of feedback on the draft license,
Rebecca has asked me to work with all of you to reach out to the people you
know and friends of friends that are in the local HK IP community to solicit
feedback and comments on the draft license.

The pdf of the draft license is available here:

http://creativecommons.org/international/hk/translated-license.pdf

It doesn't matter if they are conservative or liberal, if they understand
Creative Commons or not...just as long as they are very well-versed in local
HK IP law.  We want to solicit as many comments from across the legal
spectrum as possible so we (and the users of the CC HK license) have a fair
measure of confidence that this localized CC license will be valid in a HK
court and withstand any legal challenges to its validity.

There are two components to this outreach and comment solicitation program.

Outreach:

We have created a private Google Doc where people can list the contact
details for the people they think they can solicit comments from.  (Kenneth,
I have just sent you an invite to the Google Doc for you to put your
contacts at Deacons, Bird & Bird, Jones Day, MoFo and Lovells.)

The goal with this Google Doc is to make it easier to to keep track of who
is contacting whom and to introduce a certain level of accountability and a
certain sense of urgency so we can meet Rebecca's CNY deadline.  You can
contact me directly at this email address to request an invite to the Google
Doc if you have someone in your social network that you are either willing
to contact or that you would like me or someone else involved with the CC-HK
localization efforts to contact (expect a 24 hour turnaround time maximum on
the Google Doc invite.  Note you will also need a Google ID to access the
Google Doc).  

Further instructions are provided in the Google Doc.  Also, although we did
not want to post private details about "our targets" on the Wiki, the Wiki
will be updated to reflect, in general, a vague description of who is
contacting whom and by when and a rough description of affiliation
(academia/law firm/etc.).

Comment Solicitation:

The pdf format of the CC-HK draft license, more general information about
Creative Commons, information about the team leading the CC-HK localization
efforts, etc. are available here:

http://creativecommons.org/international/hk/

Please point your contacts to this link.

Also, please ask those you contact to submit their feedback on the draft
license by either:

1. Going to http://creativecommons.org/international/hk/, clicking on "post
a message" and then sending a message to us with their feedback (please ask
them to put "license feedback" in the subject line); or

2. If that is not a workable alternative for some reason, have them send
their comments to Ben Cheng at chpapa AT gmail.com with "license feedback" in
the subject line.  He will then repost those comments to the CC-HK email
list. 

Also, please note the email quoted right below this one where Professor Lee
outlines which areas the legal team is most interested in receiving feedback
(Drafting; and Content, in particular clause 3 and 4).

Many thanks,
Henry Oh

On 12/01/08 7:18 PM, "alicelee AT hkucc.hku.hk" <alicelee AT hkucc.hku.hk> wrote:

> May I add that, in respect of Rebecca's last question, we look forward to
> receiving feedback on:
> 
> (i) DRAFTING, such as style, language or consistency (issues like those 
> raised
> by Ryanne -- Thank you, Ryanne);
> 
> (ii) CONTENT, in particular, clause 3 and 4, which relate to the scope of 
> the
> licence and restrictions respectively. For instance, whether the phrase
> "publish, distribute, archive, make available, publicly perform or otherwise
> disseminate the work" in clause 4a is wide enough, or too wide -- those who
> are
> actively involved in sharing such as bloggers may know better than we do.
> 
> Do have a look at the draft licence if you haven't done so, and let us know 
> if
> you see any part that might need to be revised.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alice
> 
> Quoting Li Yahong <yali AT hku.hk>:
> 
>> Dear Catherina, Rebecca and Ryanne,
>> 
>> Dear all:
>> 
>> I am sorry for being silent in the past few days and did not respond to 
>> your
>> email about the licence.  After hectically meeting the marking deadline 
>> last
>> weekend, I have been involved in a conference this week, and have not been
>> able to follow the email closely.  I apologize for overlooking any email 
>> that
>> concern me and our legal team.
>> 
>> Many thanks, Catharina, for answering the first question raised by Rebecca.
>> Now let me try to answer the rest of the questions:
>> 
>> (1) About the version of the license the changes made from: we used the
>> version 3.0 of the un-ported international licence, as instructed by
>> Catharina. You can access this version within the page of cc international.
>> We worked on the working document provided by the CC international so that
>> our licence can incorporate the most updated changes in the international
>> version, and follow the correct format.  We did not adopt any model of 
>> other
>> jurisdictions, e.g., US, UK, Australia and China, as we believed that none 
>> of
>> them are perfect.  Instead, we analyzed the pros and cons in each of the
>> licences of various jurisdictions based on the excellent research results
>> provided by Rob and Jerry, and tried to incorporate the parts that suit 
>> HK's
>> situation.  
>>    
>> (2) The major challenges we faced during the drafting process are that some
>> terms and and their legal meanings in HKCO are different from those in the
>> un-ported licence.  It is not a simple matter of replacing the terms, but 
>> it
>> requires careful analysis of the legal meanings under those terms.  For
>> example, after comparing with other jurisdictions' licences and analyzing
>> sec. 29(1) of HKCO, we replaced "adaptation" with "derivative work" since 
>> we
>> believe that the scope of "adaptation" in HKCO is much narrower than the
>> scope of "adaptation" under the cc int'l un-ported licence, and "derivative
>> work", as adapted by some other jurisdictions is more appropriate to be 
>> used
>> in our licence. 
>> 
>> I would also like to take this opportunity to answer Ryanne's questions
>> posted on Jan 10.
>> 
>> About Clause 2 "fair dealing":  the phrase in the note "not added fair use"
>> and "not added first sale" refer the licences of US, UK, and mainland China
>> which "fair use" and "first sale" are included.  When we put the notes 
>> under
>> the clause, we had Catharina in mind thinking that she may be aware of that
>> fact.  Sorry for the confusion.
>> 
>> Clause 4f: after we sent the first draft to cc-international, we received
>> Catharina's instruction that cc international is considering modifying the
>> language about moral rights in the unported version to keep it as simple as
>> possible, and we are recommended to adopt the language "moral rights remain
>> unaffected to the extent they are recognized and not waivable by applicable
>> law."  Catharina said that this has been done by many new jurisdictions.  
>> we
>> studied HKCO and made the modification to the language accordingly.  So 
>> yes,
>> the unported licence has different wording, but ours is most updated.
>> 
>> Thanks very much for Ryanne's other very helpful comments and suggestions.
>> We will look into them for the purpose of future modification.
>> 
>> We welcome your inputs and will try our best to answer any questions 
>> raised.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Yahong
>> 
>> 
>> Dr. Yahong Li
>> Associate Professor
>> Faculty of Law
>> The University of Hong Kong
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Catharina Maracke
>>   To: Rebecca MacKinnon
>>   Cc: cc-hk 
>>   Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:00 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Cc-hk] license public discussion
>> 
>> 
>>   Dear Rebecca and all,
>> 
>> 
>>   thanks for pushing the discussion and trying to get feedback for the
>> license draft. I guess Rebecca's questions can best be answered by the 
>> legal
>> team in Hong Kong who has just gone through all the work to adapt the 
>> license
>> to Hong Kong Copyright law. I just wanted to jump into the first question. 
>> We
>> as CCi always ask for the first draft of a national license to be the
>> Creative Commons Attribution / Non Commercial / Share Alike (BY-NC-SA) 
>> since
>> every other element required for the remaining licenses can be found in the
>> BY-NC-SA. It makes the work on the licenses and the discussion much easier 
>> to
>> start in a first step with this specific license and then, once the legal
>> team and CCi has agreed on a final version of that license, - in a next 
>> step
>> - to work on all six licenses.
>> 
>> 
>>   I would appreciate a careful and critical review of this first draft 
>> since
>> the detailed discussion at this stage of the porting process will help to
>> avoid problems later on as Rebecca has mentioned.
>> 
>> 
>>   Many thanks to all of you!
>> 
>> 
>>   Best wishes from Berlin,
>> 
>> 
>>   Catharina
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
> ..............................................................................
>>   Dr. Catharina Maracke
>>   Director, Creative Commons International
>>   Gipsstrasse 12
>>   10119 Berlin
>>   Phone: +49-30-28 09 39 09
>>   Fax: +49-30-28 09 39 10
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   On Jan 10, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Rebecca MacKinnon wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>     Hi everybody. So far nobody has asked any questions about the license. 
>> If
>> we are going to launch in June, we need to make sure that we are able to
>> obtain robust feedback from Hong Kong's IP and legal community by Chinese 
>> New
>> Year. Otherwise we are in danger of running out of time to do revisions and
>> further consultations if something really controversial comes up in order 
>> to
>> have a license everybody is happy with in time for a June launch. So if we
>> aren't likely to get much feedback before CNY we might need to consider
>> delaying the launch. If we decide to delay the launch until the Fall or
>> Winter we need to make that decision before the end of this month. A late
>> July or August launch is best avoided due to the Olympics, which would
>> guarantee the least possible amount of attention and highest possible
>> airfares/hotel rates for people coming in. Then I assume Larry has to teach
>> in the Fall and won't be so easily available again until Winter break.
>> 
>>     So please, everybody, help us out with your own feedback and by
>> soliciting feedback from others.
>>     Note that the URL to download the draft license is here:
>>     http://creativecommons.org/international/hk/
>> 
>>     I have asked Henry Oh to work with all of you to make sure that in the
>> next two weeks we reach out to everybody in the legal and IP policy 
>> community
>> who needs to be aware of the impending launch of the license, and whose
>> comments/feedback/criticism would help us avoid problems later on. So you 
>> can
>> expect to hear from him both on and off list as he works to mobilize our
>> efforts. 
>> 
>>     Meanwhile, as a non-lawyer and non-expert in IP I am going to kick off
>> the discussion with some dumb questions for our legal team that probably 
>> seem
>> obvious to IP lawyers and CC-insiders, but since I am neither and the 
>> answers
>> aren't obvious to me, they might not be obvious to other people either.
>> 
>>     1. We only have the draft of the 
>> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike3.0
>> license. Is that because it addresses all the issues that are present in 
>> all
>> the other licenses?
>> 
>>     2. Notes in the draft refer to changes that were made. However it is 
>> not
>> made clear which version of the license your changes were made from. What 
>> was
>> the original license version that you were working from and where can we 
>> see
>> a copy? Was it the UK license or the un-ported international license? If it
>> was the UK license, I note that on the CC website only the 2.0 version is
>> available... so is the 3.0 version available somewhere else online or can 
>> it
>> be sent to us so that we can actually look at what the draft has been 
>> changed
>> from?
>> 
>>     3. More general question: what were the main challenges you faced in
>> adapting the license from whatever the original was? Are there particular
>> things you would especially like to get feedback on?
>> 
>>     Thanks!!
>> 
>>     Rebecca
>> 
>> 
>>     -- 
>>     Rebecca MacKinnon
>>     Assistant Professor, Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
>>     University of Hong Kong   (http://jmsc.hku.hk )
>>     E-mail: rmack AT hku.hk | Tel: +852-2219-4005
>>     Blog: http://RConversation.blogs.com
>>     Co-founder: http://GlobalVoicesOnline.org
>>     "The world is talking. Are you listening?"
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>     http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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