Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Jonathan Mohler <jonathan.mohler AT gmail.com>]

On Jul 9, 2013, at 10:50 PM, b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

Jerry:

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Jerry Shepherd <jshepherd53 AT gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Chris,

 

A couple of cautions here:

 

First of all, don't get too enamored with Karl's denigration of the Masoretic pointing.  The  Masoretes were preservers and not innovators.  There is no doubt that they made mistakes; but, for the most part, their vocalization of the text is based on reliable tradition that was handed down to them from the previous generations of scribes.  No reputable scholar working in Hebrew Bible accepts the work of Masoretes as completely reliable.  But neither do any reputable scholars simply dismiss their work either.

Where do my views differ from what you wrote above?

The biggest difference is that I’m a reader, not a scholar. At least that’s what got me to this point. It’s just that as I got more and more familiar with the text and the language used to transmit it, I found more and more problems where what I was reading didn’t fit what I had been taught about the language.

As far as the pronunciation, the points reflect the Masoretic time and place, not Biblical era pronunciation. As far as meaning, I’ve been consistent that the vast majority are accurate.

 

  So Karl's views, I think I am safe in saying, are not shared by the vast majority of scholars on this discussion list.

 

… 

Blessings,

 

Jerry 

Jerry Shepherd

Taylor Seminary

Edmonton, Alberta

jshepherd53 AT gmail.com

 

Karl W. Randolph. 

From: Jerry Shepherd <jshepherd53 AT gmail.com>

Date: July 9, 2013 10:50:40 PM CDT

To: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>

Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ex 6:6 hiphil imperative 'bring'

Hi Karl,

 

The problem was with how strongly you put things: "You can't trust the Masoretic points."  I believe rather that a great deal of trust can be put in the Masoretic points.  And, as it turns out, in the example Chris brought forward, the Masoretic text was spot on.

Hi Karl,

I agree with Jerry.  You speak in hyperbole.  For example you often speak of a 1000 yr gap between the Masoretic tradition and speakers of BH.  This ignores several factors. 1) Hebrew was spoken without interruption well into the common era in Tiberias and other parts as well.  2) So the time span  between an era of spoken Hebrew and the beginning of the Masoretic effort is much smaller, if not negligeable.  3) if they were passing on an oral tradition, we can be quite confident that much of what is passed on comes from antiquity. The veracity of oral traditions is well established in anthropological circles.

No doubt some of the pointing represents a later pronunciation from that of Moses.  I would love to engage you on some of my thoughts in a new thread.

 

Also, I do not believe that the Masoretic points reflect the "Masoretic time and place."  Rather, they reflect the tradition that was passed down to the Masoretes, which may well indeed go back to biblical times in large measure.

 

Blessings,

 

Jerry

Blessings,

Jonathan Mohler