Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Andronic Khandjani <andronicusmy AT gmail.com>]

Ishinan Ishibashi,

The Qur'an is a very late text expressing sometimes a mixture of Biblical
and Jewish traditions with Arabic traditions. We cannot use it as a
reliable source.

Best regards,

Firouz Sadegh
Pleven, Bulgaria



2012/4/15 Ishnian <ishinan AT comcast.net>

> Jim ,
>
> I am sorry to disappoint you but it is mentioned in the Qur'an, it is also
> inscribed on a carved stele from the Sargon's II era. It is exhibited at
> the
> National Museum of Saudi Arabia, Riyadh as 'mdn Thamuwd'.
>
>  Besides, Madiyan, as a 'toponymic', is and has always been a proper name
> in
> Arabic since time immemorial.
>
> If you are serious in your investigation about northern Arabia, I would
> strongly suggest to you to get in touch at once with Dr. Juris Zarins, an
> archaeologist who worked in Saudi Arabia for 15 years and led parts of the
> national survey there.  Perhaps, he will be of assistance in giving  you
> accurately the historical facts you lack.
>
> Take care.
>
> Ishinan Ishibashi
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Ishinan Ishibashi:
>
> 1.  You wrote:  “Try MadA'in SAliH of ThAmuwd in the northern Arabian
> peninsula nearby the modern Saudi town of Tubuwk.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mada%27in_Saleh”
>
> (a)  That cite says:  “Mada'in Saleh (Arabic: مدائن صالح, madāʼin Ṣāliḥ),
> also called Al-Hijr or Hegra (so in Greek and Latin, e.g. by Pliny), is a
> pre-Islamic archaeological site located in the Al-Ula sector, within the Al
> Madinah Region of Saudi Arabia.  A majority of the vestiges date from the
> Nabatean kingdom (1st century CE).”
>
> The 1st century CE is too late for the Patriarchal narratives.
>
> (b)  That cite also says:  “The long history of the place and the multitude
> of cultures to have occupied the site have led to the several names that
> are
> still in use to refer to the area.  The place is currently known as Mada'in
> Saleh, Arabic for "Cities of Saleh," which was coined by an Andalusian
> traveler in 1336 AD.”
>
> 1336 AD is too late for the Patriarchal narratives.
>
> 2.  You wrote:  “Also mentioned on a carved stele commemorating Sargon's II
> victory over Thamud  (705-721)  B.C.   [National Museum of Saudi Arabia,
> Riyad]”
>
> As far as I know, the name that is attested on that stele is “Thamud”, not
> “Mada-in”.
>
> Although scholars might like an 8th century BCE date for the composition of
> the Patriarchal narratives, in my opinion that date is too late.  The
> dozens
> of non-Semitic names in the Patriarchal narratives suggest a mid-14th
> century BCE date for both the Patriarchal Age and the composition of the
> Patriarchal narratives, including the dating of the name “Hebrew”/(BR-Y,
> which I see as being the non-Semitic name E-bi-ir-ya meaning “God Is Lord”.
>
> Jim Stinehart
> Evanston, Illinois
>
>
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