Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Chavoux Luyt <chavoux AT gmail.com>]

Shalom all

In my reading of Judges (Shoftim) 6 to 8 (the story of Gideon), I found the
following: In 6:3 the people oppressing Israel is decribed as: ועלה מדין
ועמלק ובני קדם
(v'alah Midyan v'Amalek uv'nei Kedem). Midian, Amalek and the children of
the East.
A bit later (in 8:34) , the following is said about the slain Midianites: כי
נזמי זהב להם כי ישמעאלים הם
(Ki nizmei zahav lahem ki Yishma'lim hem). For they had golden earrings,
because they were Ishmaelites.
This seems to imply that the Midianites were included within the group of
Ishmaelites.
(Cf. also the story of Josef in Gen.37, 39:1).

I remember we talked a while ago about the meaning of על פני כל אחיו ישכן
('al pnei kol achav) in Gen.16:12 and 25:18 (על פני כל אחיו נפל), but it was
more about the portrayal of Ishmael and wether (yado bechol vyad kol bo) was
meant to indicate enmity between Ishmael and his brothers.

What I want to ask is if "al pnei kol achav" doesn't simply mean that
Ishmael lived among his brothers (in their presence), one of whom is Midian
(Gen.25:2) and who was sent to the land of the East (אל ארץ קדם) and maybe
also have intermarried (especially in the context of Gen.25). Otherwise,
Ishmael might also have become simply a generic name for all the (other)
sons of Abraham (except Isaac) since he was the oldest.

I know that typical explanation for the Ishmael/Midian names in the Joseph
story is that it consists of 2 stories from different sources. However, this
explanation doesn't fit the same phenomenon in Judges.

Cheers
Chavoux Luyt