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  • From: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Jer 38.9 as hyperbole
  • Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:35:25 +0100


Dear Carl,

In my view, the hyperbolic claim regarding Jeremiah 38:9 is an ad hoc explanation. The reason for it is the view that the WAYYIQTOL form is perfective, and a perfective verb should not have an egressive force or refer to the future. Therefore, when the map does not fit the terrain, the terrain is wrong. A WEQATAL would be no problem, as Randall shows.

A interesting example of such ad hoc explanations, is the discussion between the two Semitists, (the Norwegian) Harris Birkeland and F. R. Blake in the 1950s. The issue was 130 WAYYIQTOLs that different scholars claimed had present or future reference. Both scholars believed that WAYYIQTOL is perfective or represents past tense. After both had carefully considered the WAYYIQTOLs, both came to the same conclusion: These 130 WAYYIQTOLs could not be used as evidence that the form was not perfective or had past tense. However, the reasons for their conclusion were diametrically opposed. Birkeland use a kind of linguistic gymnastics, and found that none of the WAYYIQTOLs. save one or two, had present or future reference. Blake concluded that most of the WAYYIQTOLs did have present or future reference. But he claimed that they were wrongly pointed and were WEYIQTOLs. When the conclusions of a study are drawn before the study starts, the study is biased, and can hardly be called scientific at all.

I see no hyperbole at all in Numbers 17:27. According to Chapter 16, the people were not obedient, and 14,700 died. The basis for the words of the people in 17:27 is that if God is so demanding, so bloodthirsty, that even if they came close to the tabernacle, they would die (17:28), then we all will die is the feelings. I translate 17:27-28 in the following way:

27. And the sons of Israel said to Moses: "Look! We will (certainly) die (QATAL); we will (certainly) perish (QATAL) ; all of us will (certainly )perish (QATAL). 28 Anyone approaching, coming near to the dwelling (tabernacle) of YHWH, shall die (YIQTOL). Must we (really) end up expiring (QATAL+infinitive)?

I have added "certainly" in parentheses. The reason is that when the verb is not clause initial in a clause with future reference, QATAL is not the default form used. Therefore, when it is used, it may or may not add some emphasis. There is nothing strange with the clauses of vv. 27 and 28; and there is not problematic that we see four QATALs and one YIQTOL with future reference.

I have a list of 997 WAYYIQTOLs with non-past reference, 965 QATALs with future reference, 2,505 QATALs with present reference, 50 WEYIQTOLs with past reference, and 1,027 YIQTOLs with past reference.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli



Rolf:

I think that student has a point. I disagree with it, based on my understanding of Biblical Hebrew language, but to reject it as "preconceived conclusions" does not do him justice.

An example of hyperbole is found in Numbers 17:27 (verse 12 in English) where Israel said "We are expiring, we are lost, all of us are lost!" when that was not true. So we cannot reject the possibility of hyperbole out of hand.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Rolf Furuli <<mailto:furuli AT online.no>furuli AT online.no> wrote:


Dear Randall,

This is an excellent example of how the text is read in the light of preconceived conclusions., instead of drawing one's conclusions on the text taken at face value. When the text dose not fit one's conclusions, the text is explained away. But there are many more similar examples.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli

Exaggeration.
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Subject: [b-hebrew] gen 16:12
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a curiousity: "yad kol bo", accidentally or not, permutes the same 6 letters of "yado bakol".
nir cohen


Hi everybody.

I would like to start a discussion about Gen16:12, particularly the part which
is traditionally translated "His hand will be against everyone, and everyone's
hand will be against him." - יָדֹ֣ו בַכֹּ֔ל וְיַ֥ד
כֹּ֖ל

There is a view held by some that this portion could just as easily been
regarded as striking one's hand against another in trade (cf. Prov 22:26a).
This view draws support from the generally positive blessing to which Hagar
reacts extremely positively. In this view, the portion could just as well be
translated "He will trade with everybody, and everybody with him." (cf.
http://arabchurch.wordpress.com/additional-readings/additional-readings-2/)

I tried digging into as much material as I could lay hands on (pardon the
pun), but most commentators either do not discuss the Hebrew, or cursorily
show the traditional interpretation.

Is this alternative interpretation correct? Care to discuss? (Note: I am
asking because I am involved in translation work for an upcoming scripture
project.)

B Chan



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