Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

As the originator of this thread Richard Conaway wrote:

"I am wondering what the group thinks about this paper by Nehemiah Gordon
regarding the vowels of The Name refuting the established belief that the
Masoretes substituted the vowels of Adonai. He uses Biblical Hebrew
manuscript evidence.

http://www.karaite-korner.org/yhwh_2.pdf  It's an easy read.
Note that The link doesn't work on my computer. Dave Donnelly,
but I had my own copy of the article.
Nehemiah Gordon is a Karaite Jew and has extensive education and
experience
with ancient Hebrew.

I just want to know the truth as to the proof of the vowel substitution
if
there is any. I hear other rumors as well such as that they changed all
the
vowels to avoid "Yah" in names such as Y'hoshua, Y'huda, and such, and
even
one rumor that says they purposely changed the vowels to create a word
that
would actually cause the speaker to be cursing God.

Adonai substitution--maybe. Rumor 2 I think rather doubtful. Rumor 3
sounds
preposterous because that would be a great sin to purposely cause others
to
commit blasphemy in ignorance.

I just want to separate the true knowns from the unknowns, rumors, and
falsehoods. I have no personal agenda, just seeking the truth.

Thanks.

Richard Conaway"

_________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________
In his article "The pronunciation of the name",  Nehemia Gordon 
made roughly the same comment that Gesenius made in his article on Hebrew
word #3068.
He notes using Hebrew Font: "But the vowels of YHWH are clearly different

from the vowels of Adonai. 
YHWH is written Yehvah [hebrew font shows Yod with a simple shewa under
it,  
and no holem is shown above the vav] 
but with the vowels of Adonai it should have been Yahovah" 
[Hebrew font shows Yod with a hatef Patah under it, and also shows 
a holem above the vav. 
Nehemiah Gordon does not appear to have been aware that in the Ben
Chayyim Hebrew
text of 1525 A.D.  "Yehovah" not "Yehvah" occurs 6518 times. 
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264290/bdbandstrong290.jpg
Dave Donnelly
____________________________________________________________
Criminal Lawyer
Criminal Lawyers - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=b8XEgvoNeLtTaPRICC20HAAAJ1BVGyITH_OGb159rldJgo3SAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAiFgAAAAA=
>From jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com  Mon Dec 28 15:10:41 2009
Return-Path: <jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 5FB324C012; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:10:41 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com (mail-bw0-f224.google.com
        [209.85.218.224])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40D94C013
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:10:28 -0500 
(EST)
Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so6906178bwz.30
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:10:27 -0800 
(PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.204.25.81 with SMTP id y17mr9483993bkb.96.1262031026963; Mon, 
        28 Dec 2009 12:10:26 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <3A80F72BA0504B6C9A7C3ADB6BE65330@adminPC>
References: <4675.4ffd9895.386a383a AT aol.com>
        <3A80F72BA0504B6C9A7C3ADB6BE65330@adminPC>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:10:26 +0200
Message-ID: <4f3a6170912281210l756c24bam2ce7f559253e7665 AT mail.gmail.com>
From: James Christian <jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>
To: Barry <nebarry AT verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Vowel Subsitution
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:10:41 -0000

Hi all,

the classic explanation is as Ted puts forward but there is no real evidence
for it and this argument is quoted parrot fashion seemingly without end as
if it were established fact.

Also Ted's presentation of the facts is not entirely complete. The fact is
that vocal shwa was never used under aleph for pronunciation reasons. The
massoretes used a different vowel symbol because they were different vowels,
neither a pure shwa and neither a proper 'a' sound but somewhere in between.

James Christian