Biblical Hebrew Forum

[dwashbur AT nyx.net]

I don't know about such a supposition, because we don't actually know when 
the caves
ceased to be in use.  The archaeological evidence is rather equivocal, and we 
don't know
much from the caves themselves.  The only thing I'm thoroughly convinced of 
is that the
Essenes-at-Qumran hypothesis is wrong.

On 30 Aug 2009 at 20:09, James Read wrote:

> Ok. So let's suppose that the caves were no longer in use for a
> century or so before the destruction of Jerusalem. And so let's
> suppose that on this basis we can accurately date these targumim.
> Doesn't that then call into question that the LXX was the first
> translation of the Tanakh?
>
> James Christian
>
>
> Quoting dwashbur AT nyx.net:
>
> > Three Targumim were found at Qumran, so at least somebody was
> using
> > them for a century
> > or more before the destruction of Jerusalem.  There were several
> > other items in Aramaic
> > found in the caves, as well.
> >
> > On 30 Aug 2009 at 9:03, James Read wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for that. I've had a look round and all the Targum MSS I
> can
> >> find seem to have been found outside of Isreal. A lot of them
> in
> >> Iraq.
> >> This would seem to suggest that the Aramaic translations were
> used
> >> by
> >> and large by Jewish communities outside of Isreal. Aramaic, being
> a
> >> lingua franca of the time, would seem to be the obvious choice
> of
> >> language to translate the Hebrew Tanakh into for these
> >> communities.
> >>
> >> As regards dates, I haven't been able to find any particularly
> old
> >> MSS
> >> of Targumim. They all seem to be pretty late. It would seem that
> you
> >> are suggesting that the Aramaic translations predated the Greek
> LXX.
> >> This would indeed be something interesting to investigate.
> >>
> >> If there is something you know that I'm missing here please help
> me
> >> out. I would be interested in finding:
> >>
> >> a) the oldest Targum MSS
> >>
> >> b) any ancient references to their usage
> >>
> >> in order to get an approximate date and period of usage for
> these
> >> translations.
> >>
> >> James Christian
> >>
> >> Quoting "Joel C. Salomon" <joelcsalomon AT gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > James Read wrote:
> >> >> I'm following what you are saying here Randall with one
> >> exception. You
> >> >> have assumed that the Hebrews spoke and used Greek and
> Aramaic
> >> during
> >> >> the second temple period up until the revolt of Bar Kochba.
> >> > <snip>
> >> >> So, just what are you basing this assumption on? (I am
> >> genuinely
> >> >> interested as I have heard this stated many times but have yet
> to
> >> see
> >> >> any form of evidence)
> >> >
> >> > How early is the use of a Targum recorded?  Onkelus´s seems
> to
> >> date to
> >> > soon after the temple era; is that helpful?
> >> >
> >> > -Joel Salomon
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > b-hebrew mailing list
> >> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> b-hebrew mailing list
> >> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> >
> > Dave Washburn
> >
> > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
>


Dave Washburn

http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur