Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>]

Jim,

While I am not Yitzhak, I think you may have misunderstood what is being
said.  The first letter is an emphatic voiceless dental fricative.  The S
with the apostrophe after it is meant to denote a glottalised S, the S with
the dot under it a pharyngealised S.  While there were changes in
pronunciation over time, particularly in the 'S' group, emphatics usually
remain emphatic.  I am not sure you will find evidence of any emphatic
becoming a sin.  As the blog says, the Proto-Semitic emphatic voiceless
dental fricative regularly became S.ade in Canaanite, T.et in Aramiac.  In
both cases it remains an emphatic.  

Kevin Riley

-------Original Message------- 
 
From: JimStinehart AT aol.com 
Date: 1/06/2009 12:08:44 PM 
 
Yitzhak Sapir: 
 
Regarding your most helpful analysis of the pronunciation of sin and ssade 
In the Bronze Age, please take a look at this interesting, very short 
Article by a student linguist: 
 
_http://lughat.blogspot.Com/2006/07/mountains-of-Lebanon-some-etymologies.ht

Ml_ 
(http://lughat.blogspot.Com/2006/07/mountains-of-Lebanon-some-etymologies
HTML) 
 
First, it appears clear that in the beginning, the first letter in the name 
Tyre was definitely n-O-t a Hebrew ssade. 
 
But then what happened to that initial letter in Tyre late in the Bronze 
Age? This student linguist argues that when the archaic initial sound of the

First letter in Tyre dropped out, only the S-e-c-O-n-d best guess for the 
New initial sound in the name for Tyre in the Bronze Age was a Bronze Age 
Ssade, that is, an S with a dot underneath it, being an emphatic S. Per your

Post, that would be the same as the Hebrew ssade in the Bronze Age (and the 
Akkadian ssade): an emphatic S. 
 
But please explain what he says is by far the B-e-S-t guess for the first 
Sound in Tyre (after the original sound dropped out forever). Does he see 
It as being S’ [S-apostrophe], meaning alveolar ejective fricative? [Or am 
I misunderstanding, and he’s really saying it was an emphatic affricate? 
Pardon my confusion.] Perhaps there was no Hebrew letter that was a direct 
Equivalent to that? You said that the Bronze Age Hebrew sin was a lateral 
Fricative, and if I can guess what the symbol is that you typed in your
earlier 
Post (which does not show up clearly on my computer, unfortunately), I 
Think you’re saying it was a voiceless alveolar lateral fricative. That is
not 
The same as an alveolar ejective fricative, but how close is it (if that’s 
What the student linguist is referencing)? 
 
On a more general level, if in the Bronze Age the first letter in Tyre was 
N-O-t a Hebrew ssade (per the article referenced above), then perhaps the 
Oldest Hebrew textual reference to Tyre might not necessarily begin with a 
Ssade? Would a Bronze Age Hebrew sin be closer to an alveolar ejective 
Fricative than any other Hebrew letters in the Bronze Age, such as ssade, 
Samekh, shin or zayin? [Or if the student linguist is meaning to reference
an 
Emphatic affricate, would that be closer to a Bronze Age samekh than a
Bronze 
Age ssade, with a sin later having the same sound as samekh?] 
 
Perhaps it was only in the Iron Age that Biblical Hebrew developed CWR [or 
CR] as the standard spelling of Tyre? Is there any objective reason why %WR 
couldn’t have been the original, Bronze Age Hebrew spelling of Tyre? If 
The first letter in Tyre in the Bronze Age was n-O-t a Hebrew ssade, then we

Cannot be sure that the oldest Hebrew spelling of Tyre would necessarily 
Begin with a ssade, can we? 
 
Jim Stinehart 
Evanston, Illinois 
 
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
Steps! 
(http://pr.atwola
Com/promoclk/100126575x1221823251x1201398665/AOL?redir=http://WWW
freecreditreport.Com/PM/default.aspx?SC=668072&hmpgID=62&BCD=May 
ExcfooterNO62) 
_______________________________________________ 
B-Hebrew mailing list 
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
 
____________________________________________________________ 
 
 
No virus found in this incoming message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.46/2145 - Release Date: 05/31/09
05:53:00