Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>]

Hi,

Quoting K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>:

> James:
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 1:25 AM, James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi Karl,
> >
> > Genesis 2:4 seems to be the greatest evidence that your theory just doesn't
> > work. We find the same construct relationship in Genesis 2:4 and yet if we
> > were to follow the 'formula' then that would make the author of the initial
> > creation account the skies and the land.
>
>
> At this point, I’m inclined to say, “Don’t be foolish!” The heavens and
> earth cannot be authors.

Agreed. But you haven't addressed the real issue which is the fact  
that we see here the exact same construct relationship.

> The formula had the author and title listed after the document, but did not
> make the listing of both a requirement. Many cases the title is missing,
> here’s a case where the author is missing.
>
>
> > Also, one great item of evidence that prevents Genesis 2:4 from being
> > linked with the preceding creation account is the use of the name YHWH,
> > whish is consistently not used in the creation account from Genesis 1:1-2:3
> > but begins to be used consistently from Genesis 2:4 onwards linking Genesis
> > 2:4 with the following events rather than the preceding.
> >
> > While a consideration, does not rule out being the closing of the previous.
>
>
> > …
> >
> > Genesis 37:2 gets us back on track and starts the history of Jacob.
>
>
> Starts the story of Joseph. But that doesn’t make sense, i.e. the formula
> and what follows don’t work together well.

You've skipped past the important stuff here but I'll answer this  
anyway. This isn't simply a story about Joseph. This is the story of  
how 'Isreal' ended up in Egypt. Joseph is instrumental to the story  
but of no further importance. The promised 'seed' is not through his  
lineage but through Judah's lineage. The story is far much more than  
just a nice story about Joseph. Is about how all twelve brothers ended  
up in Egypt in a status very much higher than that of slavery. Just  
because the narrative starts off with Joseph doesn't make the story  
*all* about him.

> > …
> >
> >
> > James Christian
> >
> > The story of Isaac is told from Isaac’s point of view, not Rebecca’s,
> lending credence to the indication that Esau was the author of that section.

You've totally lost me here. According to your interpretation of the  
formula we trust Esau as the faithful historian who tells us all about  
what Isaac did while Jacob just tells us about Esau's lineage. What  
Rebecca has to do with the discussion is completely beyond me.

> Another thing these indicate is that Isaac and Ishmael remained on friendly
> terms, and Esau and Jacob patched up their relationship. So I see no problem
> having them at the end of their respective sections.

Who made friends with who is not a part of the narrative. The main  
points are that we understand is whose lineage the promised 'seed' is  
to come through and which neighbouring nations Esau is the father of.  
You are reading things into the narrative that it's original intention  
was not the focus of.

> I have read these over several times, including times specifically focussing
> on them, and my conclusion is that the best reading for them is that of a
> concluding list of title and author.

That's fine. But you haven't commented on the main issues being raised here.

You are basically saying that:

1) We don't know who wrote the originally wrote the creation account  
from Genesis 1:1 - 2:3 but we do know that while consistently not  
using the name Yhwh he decided to use it in the colophon in a way  
which is typical of the language of the author of Genesis 2:4 onwards

2) Adam is the author of the episode in the garden of Eden

3) Noah is the author of what happened from Adam to his day.

4) Shem, Ham and Japheth are the joint authors of what happened in the  
days of Noah

5) Shem is the author of what became of his brothers

6) Terah is the author of what happened from Shem to his day

7) Ishmael is the author of all that Abraham did

8) Isaac is the author of what became of Ishmael

9) Esau is the author of what Jacob did and how his brother extorted  
him out of his rights of first born and then stole his blessing by  
taking advantage of his father's blindness

10) Jacob is the author of what became of Esau and his offspring

11) No author given to the final account which you reduce to a story  
about Joseph yet evidently missing it's greater significance.

In a way, I can see why you this is interpretation is appealing to you  
but you cannot ignore that in order to support this interpretation you  
have to ignore the fact that on three separate occasions we see the  
exact same phenomena.

The next so-called 'author' in the series only gives a summary of what  
his brother's did for historical background knowledge of neighbouring  
nations while the next so-called 'document' is all about what happened  
from that 'author' on.

This happens for:

1) Shem
2) Isaac
3) Jacob

If this only happened once it would be easy to wipe aside. But as it  
happens three times it starts to get a little difficult to brush aside  
without addressing properly.

And the corresponsing phenomenon which happens three times over for:

1) Shem, Ham and Japheth
2) Ishmael
3) Esau

All three times for these people through whom the promised 'seed' is  
not destined to come the following account is a quick summary of which  
nations these guys fathered and with no further ado let's get back to  
what really matters which is recording the key events in the lineage  
of the 'seed' and with who Yhwh continues to reaffirm that promise.

And finally, the observation that after Jacob there is not further  
TLDTH construct as there are no further refinements of in whose  
lineage the seed would be in the next generation. Although, there is a  
hint of a further refinement to the lineage of Judah in Genesis 49:5

The scepter will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander’s  
staff from between his feet, until Shi´loh comes; and to him the  
obedience of the peoples will belong

James Christian

> Karl W. Randolph.
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew



--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.