Biblical Hebrew Forum

["John Dixon" <johndixon AT dragnet.com.au>]

Please remove my name from your mailing list for the time being.

Thank you John Dixon.
>From capechurch AT gmail.com  Sun Sep  2 08:28:15 2007
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Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 14:28:14 +0200
From: "Dr Raoul Comninos" <capechurch AT gmail.com>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
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References: <1188586500.8d2a0e20JCR128 AT student.anglia.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Was Schewa really silent?
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Another useful article on Shewa is REMARKS ON VOWELS REPRESENTED
BY $EWA AND HATEP SIGNS IN THE TIBERIAN VOCALIZATION SYSTEM by
GEOFFREY KHAN. I also have copies of this article for those who want
it. It is however a lot more technical than Chomsky's article.

Regards,
Raoul Comninos

On 8/31/07, JAMES CHRISTIAN READ <JCR128 AT student.anglia.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hi Isaac,
>
> am I to take the below as meaning that you don't accept
> propositions that vocal schewas were full vowels in
> proto semitic?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> James Christian Read - BSc Computer Science
> http://www.lamie.org/hebrew       -  thesis1: concept driven machine 
> translation using the Aleppo codex
> http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc  -  thesis2: language acquisition 
> simulation
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> James,
>
> The whole business of Schwa NA and Schwa NAX is in my opinion
> baloney. It is a historical misunderstanding and is one of the many
> ghosts cozily and imperturbably inhabiting the dim corners of Hebrew
> grammar. It got now to the point of becoming a religious question of
> how to properly recite the prayers, with some Hebrew prayer books
> marking what they think needs to be "moved".
> There is only one Schwa and it is but an indication to put a tiny
> hiatus or pause after the marked consonant. Since this requires
> phonetic discipline some find it easier to sloppily insert a thin,
> and ugly, E into this gap, phonetically disfiguring thereby the
> Hebrew language.
> Thus: XAL[ ]LEI not XAL[E]LEI, CIL[ ]LEI not CIL[E]LEI, UMAD[ ]DU,
> not UMAD[E]DU, Y[ ]$AD[ ]DEM, not Y[E]$AD[E]DEM, AP[ ]PU, not AP[E]PU.
> There is a natural tendency to place such a redundant (repugnant) E
> after an initial schwaic L, M, N, R, Y. To wit: L[E]BENAH, 'brick', L
> [E]BIBAH, 'cake', N[E]BIAH, 'prophetess', R[E]BABAH, 'ten thosand', Y
> [E]SOD, 'foundation', Y[E]LADYIM, 'children', in place of L[ ]BENAH, L
> [ ]BIBAH, N[ ]BIAH, R[ ]BABAH, Y[ ]SOD, Y[ ]LADYIM. Also if the
> second letter is Alef, He or Ayin as in the mispronounced G[E])ULAH, $
> [E](ARYIM, T[E])O, M[E](ARAH, S[E](ARAH, B[E]HEMAH, D[E]HYIRAH (from
> the root DHR, 'gallop, canter'). But $)AL, 'ask', SAD(, 'eat', $)AB
> 'draw water', appear to be easily pronounceable as $[ ])AL, S[ ](AD
> and $[ ])AB.
> Cleavage of a consonant cluster may also be a myth. Even (new) words
> such as BAR[ ]RAN, 'fastidious, choosy', from the root BRR, or XA$[ ]
> $AN, 'apprehensive', from the root X$$, should not be pronounced BAR
> [E]RAN, and XA$[E]$AN.
> As far as I can recall, no Hebrew noun starts with a schwaic Alef,
> He, Xet or Ayin , but an initial schwaic Resh is common, for
> instance, R[ ]BABAH. There are few Hebrew nouns containing a schwaic
> Alef such as B)[ ]$AH, 'cockle' of Job 31:40. In Isaiah 42:21 we find
> the verbal V[ ]YA)[ ]DYIR. A schwaic He is also rare.
> The 1 Kings 6:8 UB[ ]LULYIM, 'with winding stairs' is commonly
> pronounced U-BE-LULIM. But Leviticus 2:5 B[ ]LULAH, 'mingled' is
> pronounce BLULAH to indicate that this B is radical. Also M[ ]MALE)
> is being voiced nowadays as ME-MALE( in recognition of the
> prepositioned M being short for MI, 'he, who'.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> On Aug 30, 2007, at 5:00 PM, JAMES CHRISTIAN READ wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > recent discussions have reminded me of a point which I
> > have never really fully resolved in my mind. The whole
> > point of the Massoretic pointing system was to preserve
> > the pronunciation by introducing *non ambiguous*
> > representation of vowels.
> >
> > Why would the massoretes betray this goal by giving
> > the point which represents Schewa a dual role? And so,
> > I guess what I'm really asking is, is there any real
> > evidence that Schewa was used by the Massoretes to
> > close a syllable rather than to represent a vowel?
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > James Christian Read - BSc Computer Science
> > http://www.lamie.org/hebrew       -  thesis1: concept driven
> > machine translation using the Aleppo codex
> > http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc  -  thesis2: language acquisition
> > simulation
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
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> > _______________________________________________
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--
Rev Dr Raoul Comninos
93 Wagenaar Street
Monte Vista
7460
South Africa
capechurch AT gmail.com
Fax: (086) 6544615
-----------------------------------------------------------
Raoul Comninos studied classics at the University of the
Witwatersrand. Following a degree in classical languages and a
master's degree in New Testament studies he became a teacher of Greek
and Latin before becoming a minister in the Presbyterian Church in
Southern Africa. He completed his doctoral degree in Theology at the
University of Zululand with a study of the non-canonical Paul. His
many areas of interest include New Testament studies, biblical
languages and the science of biblical translation. He is currently
serving as minister in the Tygerburg Presbyterian Church, Cape Town,
South Africa.