Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davidfentonism AT aim.com]

 DAVE SAID:   Shalom Chris, the difficulty for me with your analysis is that 
it is the product of human reason. It's not only that I do not consider your 
view to be close to the truth but also that it seeks to explain (away) 
Scripture and tradition. Moreover, I don't look to the conduct of people and 
nations to verify Scripture but rather they are verified by Scripture. The 
same thing for science.   CHRIS REPLIES:   Well Dave, like it or not, God 
created Reason and He created Humans! On the nations clause I really think 
you ought to read it a second time. Comparisons you know don't invalidate 
God's words.   DAVE REPLIES: 
 Relying upon Scriptures here, I defer to the impetus which led Solomon to 
ask of HaShem an understanding heart to judge G-d’s people (1 Kings 3:7-12) 
and discern what is right. This attitude was pleasing to the L-RD. Again, Job 
(8:8-10) declares he ‘knows nothing’ as he was born only yesterday and 
because all our days on earth are a shadow. Psalm 19:7 declares, “The law of 
HaShem is perfect, converting the soul. The testimony of HaShem is sure, 
making wise the simple.” To fear HaShem is the beginning of wisdom and do His 
commandments is to have good understanding (Psalm 111:10). With respect to 
your point about the comparison’s of nations, I agree. I think where I did 
not agree was with the insufficiency, in my view, of those comparisons.  
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  DAVE SAID:   I am not Jewish either but I am a believer in Messiah Yeshua 
and His testimony. I suspect we differ in that you think GEEzus did away with 
Torah (i.e., instructions of G-d) and I read accept Yeshua at His word when 
He said He came to fulfill the Law and not set it aside.   CHRIS REPLIES:   
Assumptions are Human reasonigs Dave (your'e guilty)!!!!!!!! I KNOW that 
Jesus did not do away with the Law, and besides, you had better clarify which 
category of Law - Civil, Religious or Sacrificial. Or do you mean by 'Law' - 
all three categories together?   DAVE REPLIES: 
 Relying upon Scriptures here, I defer to the impetus which led Solomon to 
ask of HaShem an understanding heart to judge G-d’s people (1 Kings 3:7-12) 
and discern what is right. This attitude was pleasing to the L-RD. Again, Job 
(8:8-10) declares he ‘knows nothing’ as he was born only yesterday and 
because all our days on earth are a shadow. Psalm 19:7 declares that the law 
of HaShem is perfect, converting the soul and His testimony is sure, making 
wise the simple. In Psalm 119:98 we read that we are made wiser then our 
enemies through the commandments of G-d. I refute your claim that I assumed 
your position as it was you that implied some undefined significance to your 
statement: “G-d created Reason and He created Humans!” In the context of the 
discussion, there was nothing else for me to ‘assume’ from your comment. By 
“law” I meant the same category (ies) that Yeshua did when He said He came to 
fulfill the law, not destroy it (Mat 5:17).
 
  ================================================
 
    DAVE SAID:   Respecting your point that "experience" has shown you to 
'test everything,' I would reiterate that experience cannot be my primary 
instruction but only insofar as it conforms to the Word of G-d. Where it 
diverts from that, I will have to go with what is unseen and/or the 
Scriptures of the Almighty. To your question about Scripture, non-Jews 
imagine all they need to know about the Scriptures are contained in the 
Authorized Version of the Bible but the Hebrews really had many other texts 
from which they were and are informed about righteous living (just as Yeshua 
and His Talmidim or "Apostles" did). The Greco-Roman interpretation(s) of 
Hebrew/Jewish Scriptures has led people away from the Saviour of history and 
not closer to him.   CHRIS REPLIES:   The word of God does not contain EVERY 
possible scenario of Human trajedy and experience, but Wisdom does -- and 
that comes from EXPERIENCE my friend.   DAVE SAID ALSO:
 
 The Greco-Roman interpretation(s) of Hebrew/Jewish Scriptures has led people 
away from the Saviour of history and not closer to him   CHRIS WOULD LIKE TO 
SAY:   I thought like that once, until I learned through Bitter EXPERIENCE 
that this is a reactionary statement of bitterness preached in some circles 
with messianic verosity. But the truth is more gentle as bourne out by people 
like Corrie Ten Boom, Casper Ten Boom, Hans Polei and Mirjam de Hoop all from 
the Netherlands. (PS, they all used the equivalent of the KJV).   DAVE 
REPLIES:
 
  If by the fallacious notion that G-d’s Word “does not contain every 
scenario of human tragedy” you mean that His Word does not contain the answer 
for every question or dilemma, then I will not agree. If you mean that not 
all readers accept His Word as having the answer for all their questions then 
I can see that—yes. Notwithstanding, with your contention that ‘wisdom 
derives from human experience’ I could not disagree more. The aforementioned 
verses of Scripture tell us where wisdom comes from. To say otherwise is to 
contradict the inspired Word of G-d. Moreover, I’m sorry about the “bitter 
experience” that steered you away from the Jewish context of the Bible to a 
Greco-Roman one but, again, personal experience is not the measure of the 
truth of this. Yeshua is Jewish, Yisra’El and the Jews are Semitic (not 
Hellenist-Roman), and the Bible was constructed squarely within that context 
and must be understood within that very same context. The Ten Booms & company 
may be your favorite examples of xian identity but mine are all found in the 
Scriptures (e.g., Yeshoshua/Joshua, David, Yeshayahu/Isaiah, et al.).
 
    ==========================================================
 
    More specifically about your query, concerning the infinitive absolute 
relative to the passage you reference (Lev 20:10), I would say I agree that 
it does appear to be a certainty and thus an infinitive absolute. I have not 
looked at this more closely but am offering an opinion based on the KJV 
reading of the verse as well as what you wrote in your original post on the 
question.   Thanks for stimulating exchange! (Your'e Welcome Dave)   DAVE 
REPLIES:
 
  BTW, my remarks about suspecting that Lev 20:20 is an example of an 
infinitive absolute is based upon my previous reply to you about the law and 
G-d’s mercy and the details therein which elaborated on how He can demand 
fulfillment of His law and still make a Way for His grace and mercy without 
voiding His law. That’s missing from this post but if you reference it you 
will see the parallels.   Again, thanks for the interesting discussion.   
Shalom, Dave 
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