Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

This one is tough.  The LXX has EPEIDES ME hWS hPASIS ANQPWPOU

"and you gaze upon me as the appearance of men."

H.A.L.O.T. says this is textual uncertainty.  But it list sequence, or turn 
for other definitions.  So maybe it is "and you see me as the sequence of 
man."  Or "and you see me as the turning or man."   that one does not make 
much sense.

Another interesting point is that the parallet text in 2 Sam 7:19 has TORAT 
the femine construct of torah, makes you wonder if this is some sort of 
variant.

And lastly the NET bible has some weird thing it did with it.  They took the 
qal WR:'IYTANIY and translated it as a hiphil.  And said K:TWR means 
'searching'

And came up with "and you revealed to me the searching of man, what lies 
beyond."  Makes sense, but I don't know if it is right.
--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> In reading through 1 Chronicles I noticed that KTWR is 
> listed as being from the root TWR with a prefixed K- 
> referring to a man's turn in life, or something like that. 
> However, I wonder if it is from the root meaning to make a 
> circle, referring to the cycle of life? If so, it would be 
> a happax legomai for this term. Any thoughts? 
> 
> Karl W. Randolph. 
> 
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>From gathas AT hotkey.net.au  Mon Aug  1 21:10:56 2005
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From: "George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>
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Rolf Said:=20
Bryan`s model can be true, and your model can be true, but hardly both
models. They are both based on internal evidence and logic, but on the =
basis
of which data can we test them?  You speak of distance and a spatial
perspective, which in some languages are characteristics of verbs (see =
B.=20
Comrie (1985). "Tense," chapter 4). But do we have texts in the Tanakh, =
on the
basis of which we can establish that distance is a characteristic of
particular conjugations?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Good question, Rolf. I have essentially tried to see where the failure =
of tense models lies, and it is precisely in trying to see the =
temporality of actions being connected to morphology. It simply doesn't =
work. I have, therefore, tried to look at the verbs on a spatial plane, =
rather than a temporal plane. This has yielded suprisingly good results =
which seems to accord well with morhpology also. Biblical Hebrew is =
geared towards the spatial plane, seeing things (actions, nouns, etc) as =
being 'located' in various places, rather than occuring at various =
times. The prepositions of Hebrew are almost all spatial in meaning, and =
temporal meanings are only secondarily derived. This hints at the Hebrew =
mindset.

You can try the theory out with just about any 'early' Hebrew text. I am =
still to work properly with Qohelet and other texts which may present =
later developments of Hebrew, so I haven't really tested it out there. =
Otherwise, try it in the Pentateuch, Former and Later Prophets, and =
Psalms.


Best regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
Lecturer in Biblical Languages
Southern Cross College
Sydney, Australia