Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>]

Dear Peter,

Your arguments below are of such a nature that I am considering whether 
there is any purpose in answering your posts any more.


Best regards

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Kirk" <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
To: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
Cc: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbs


> On 01/08/2005 06:15, Rolf Furuli wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>>1a. In the four hundred and eightieth year after Israel came of the land 
>>of
>>Egypt...he began to build (WAYYIQTOL) the temple.  1 Kings 6:1
>>
>>1b. In the four hundred and eightieth year after Israel came of the land 
>>of
>>Egypt...he built (WAYYIQTOL) the house.
>>
>>...
>>
>>2. When Reuben heard (WAYYIQTOL) this, he tried to deliver (WAYYIQTOL) him
>>out of their hands. Genesis 37:21
>>
>>
> These WAYYIQTOLs are not necessarily conative. While I don't intend to 
> argue that WAYYIQTOL is always consecutive and perfective, in these cases 
> it may be. Here is another interpretation:
>
> 1 Kings 6:1 is a summary statement of the whole process:
>
> And (then) it was/happened (WAYYIQTOL) in the fourth year ...
> And Solomon built (WAYYIQTOL) the house to YHWH (a process seen in its 
> entirety in this summary statement)
>
> vv.2-36 give details of the process, indicated by a break in the WAYYIQTOL 
> series, in a flashback relative to v.1 (indicated as very commonly by 
> X-QATAL), with an internal series of events indicated by WAYYIQTOL:
>
> (2) And the house which Solomon had built (X-QATAL) was (verbless) ...
> (36) And he built the courtyard (WAYYIQTOL) ...
>
> vv.37-38 are a closing summary, indicated by another break in the 
> WAYYIQTOL series and more X-QATALs:
>
> (37) In the fourth year he had laid (X-QATAL) the foundation ...
> (38) And in the twelfth year it had been completed (X-QATAL) ...
>
> And then in Genesis 37:21-24, again the WAYYIQTOL "he delivered" in v.21 
> can be understood as indicating in summary the whole event in which Reuben 
> successfully saved Joseph. And then the everything from WAYYO'MER in v.21 
> to the end of v.24 can be taken as more detail of the event, showing how 
> Reuben's work succeeded. Now I know that this is not signalled by X-QATAL 
> or similar, but I would still consider it a possible interpretation.
>
>
> -- 
> Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/
>
>
>From peterkirk AT qaya.org  Mon Aug  1 07:55:15 2005
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Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 12:55:23 +0100
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Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbs, text-segmenting and clause-types
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On 01/08/2005 12:38, Rolf Furuli wrote:

>Dear Peter,
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Kirk" <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
>To: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
>Cc: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbs, text-segmenting and clause-types
>
>
>
>
>>On 01/08/2005 08:15, Rolf Furuli wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>The distinction between WAYYIQTOL and WEYIQTOL is often believed to be one
>>>of apocopation, but that is not correct. The only verbs whose apocopation
>>>can be seen in unpointed texts are lamed he verbs. ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>And also in certain hiphil forms, such as the example I mentioned.
>>
>>
>>
>No! We know from the DSS that plene vowels  to some extent were added. When
>we find  YODs before the root consonants of  YIQTOLs with prefixed WAW in
>some cases and these YODs are lacking in others, we cannot know whether the
>verbs originally were written defectively and each YOD  is an added plene
>vowel, or whether the YODs were original parts of the verb form, and thus
>were deleted in the forms forms without YODs. Therefore, the only examples
>from unpointed texts where apocopated forms can be seen are lamed he verbs.
>
>
>
OK, I accept that the plene vowels may have been added i.e. not in the
very earliest texts. This is of course not true of all plene vowels in
the Tanakh, as we see consistent distinctions in their distribution
between earlier and later books e.g. in the spelling of the name Dawid,
but it might be true of the regular non-apocopated hiphil forms.
Nevertheless, the Masoretic text does generally distinguish between
regular YIQTOL forms of hiphil with plene yod and WAYYIQTOL forms
without plene yod. It is therefore meaningful to investigate the
exceptions to this rule.

And I note that the case I mentioned, WYGY(W in Psalm 107:18, is
especially interesting because, in its environment before ayin, the
expected apocopated form has a patah or qamats (replacing tsere) cf. the
singular form WAYYAGGA` in Isaiah 6:7 etc. Yod can never be a plene
vowel for an "a" sound (except possibly in the ending -AYW), and so the
plene vowel yod indicates a different pronunciation, in the psalm
WAYYAGGI`U rather than WAYYAGGA`U which would be expected by comparison
with the Isaiah case. Such a pronunciation distinction suggests a
meaning distinction.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/