Biblical Hebrew Forum

["George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>]

Hi Dave!

I only just realised your response to my posting, so my apologies for the 
extremely late reply.

I have not had the chance to check Hatav's system in any depth yet, but from 
the skim I had, she seems to be proposing something that is at least similar 
to mine, but I suspect it will still be different. As for getting your hands 
on a copy of our textbook, you can buy one at www.moorebooks.com.au. There 
are a few errata in the book, but then it hasn't been through proper 
publishing procedures yet.

Best Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
(Sydney, Australia)

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dave Washburn 
  To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
  Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consequtive


  George,

  On Thursday 28 April 2005 01:48, George Athas wrote:
  > There is another approach to the Hebrew verbal system which we are using
  > here in Sydney (at Uni of Sydney and Southern Cross College). Ian Young 
and
  > I argue that there is no such thing as tense in Hebrew verbs. The analogy
  > we use to explain the verbs is that it's like going to a theatre to watch 
a
  > play. Hebrew verbs invite the reader onto the stage to follow the action 
as
  > it happens on stage. Tense is irrelevant  -- it's really all about how the
  > author wants the reader to view a particular action:
  >
  > WAYYIQTOL: Adds narrative momentum and creates a new narrative reference
  > point. The plot moves forward. It doesn't necessarily denote the next
  > consecutive action, but merely the next point in the plot. It's like 
taking
  > a step with an actor as he moves across the stage.
  >
  > QATAL: Halts narrative momentum and causes the reader to focus on a
  > particular action. It's a bit like stopping and zooming in on something.
  >
  > WEQATAL: Sustains the focus at the current narrative reference point. It's
  > meaning is derived from an antecedent verb/clause.
  >
  > YIQTOL: Indicates background action -- it's the backdrop in which you view
  > the actions denoted by other conjugations. It's like verbal scenery -- te
  > set on which the actors are performing.

  How would you compare this approach to Hatav's system of moving or not 
moving 
  R-time?

  > This system works remarkably well, and is great to teach alongside a
  > biblical text. We have produced a textbook ('Elementary Biblical Hebrew')
  > which is being trialled here in Sydney for the second time. We'll try to
  > officially publish it in the near future.

  Any chance of getting a copy sooner?  *drool*

  -- 
  Dave Washburn
  http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
  Reality is what refuses to go away when
  you stop believing in it.
  _______________________________________________
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>From emmanuel.le4 AT wanadoo.fr  Wed May 25 12:28:51 2005
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Hi everybody.
What are the helpful books/ websites that could help me understanding the 
massoretic notes?

Thank you

Emmanuel
Ferney-Voltaire
France
>From csmith AT bbc.edu  Wed May 25 13:21:55 2005
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The derivation of the wayyiqtol verb is relevant to the discussion. The most 
likely origin of the
form is that it was an innovation, combining vav with doubling (assimilated 
nun?) and an archaic
preterite verbal form, adapted for a new kind of literature, religous 
narrative/prose. The sacred
writing/mythology of the other ANE languages was poetic (treating Middle 
Egyption prose as
non-Semitic). The Hebrew Bible was the first body of Semitic literature to 
present sacred texts inprose form and it presented a unique circumstance in 
which a verbal form was created to suit the needs of the text - a narrative 
of the acts of a God of time/history rather than a god of nature.

If this is the case, then the wayyiqtol verbal form does not neccesarily need 
to "conform" to the
Hebrew verbal system a whole (whether aspectual or tense based), which, 
presumably, grew out
of the spoken language.

Colin Smith