Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Evgeny Ivanov <evi7538 AT yahoo.com>]

Sorry for off-topic, and I realize that this is a "sensitive" issue, but does 
anyone know if Qumran scrolls shed any light on the issue of "virgin" vs. 
"young woman" in Isaiah 7:14?
 
Thanks,
Eugene

Trevor Peterson <abuian AT access4less.net> wrote:
Evgeny Ivanov wrote:
> I'm trying to understand the relation of two parts of
> Ps.51.6 "Against Thee I have sinned ..." and "You will
> be just in Thy word ...". The connecting gword is
> Le-MaAN, translated as "so that". Now, BDB says that
> Le-MaAN "is always "in order that", not merely "so
> that", but sts. in rethorical passages, the issue of a
> line of action, though really undesigned, is
> represented by it ironically as if it was designed".

I wonder if it helps to understand lema'an with reference to the act of 
confession. So not, I sinned in order that . . . , but (I confess that) 
I sinned, in order that . . . The point would be that the Psalmist is 
making this direct confession of sin, because he wants God's punishment 
to make sense. (I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense objectively 
without the confession, but the point is, if I never admit that I've 
offended God, I have no basis for calling his negative actions toward me 
a just response.) Just a thought.

Trevor Peterson
CUA/Semitics
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>From sh AT teol.ku.dk  Fri Apr  1 10:34:22 2005
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Subject: [b-hebrew] "virgin" vs. "young woman"in Isaiah 7:14 
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Eugene,

Sorry if this sounds arrogant, but as far as I can see, there isn't =
really any "issue" as far as the text is concerned: Hebrew "'almah" =
means a young woman, and since young women may be virgins (if unmarried, =
they ought to, in traditional society like that reflected in the Bible), =
it may easily be used of a virgin, but it does not "mean" virgin (as =
opposed to a young woman who has had sexual intercourse), and there's an =
end of the issue.

As far as your question regarding Qumran is concerned: Is 7:14 is not =
preserved in any of the Biblical scrolls found there, so they don't help =
us. The word 'almah does not occur in any of the non-biblical scrolls =
either. The most obvious Hebrew word for "virgin" in the stricter sense, =
"betulah" does occur a handful of times, but I don't think they have any =
bearing on the interpretation of Isaiah (I'll be happy to send you a =
list of them, if it can be of any use).

sincerely
Soren, Copenhagen

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra:  b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org =
[SMTP:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] p=E5 vegne af Evgeny Ivanov
> Sendt:        1. april 2005 17:23
> Til:  b-hebrew
> Emne: Re: [b-hebrew] God vs angels in Ps 8:5 + "virgin" vs. "young =
woman"in Isaiah 7:14=20
>=20
> Sorry for off-topic, and I realize that this is a "sensitive" issue, =
but does anyone know if Qumran scrolls shed any light on the issue of =
"virgin" vs. "young woman" in Isaiah 7:14?
> =20
> Thanks,
> Eugene
>=20
> Trevor Peterson <abuian AT access4less.net> wrote:
> Evgeny Ivanov wrote:
> > I'm trying to understand the relation of two parts of
> > Ps.51.6 "Against Thee I have sinned ..." and "You will
> > be just in Thy word ...". The connecting gword is
> > Le-MaAN, translated as "so that". Now, BDB says that
> > Le-MaAN "is always "in order that", not merely "so
> > that", but sts. in rethorical passages, the issue of a
> > line of action, though really undesigned, is
> > represented by it ironically as if it was designed".
>=20
> I wonder if it helps to understand lema'an with reference to the act =
of=20
> confession. So not, I sinned in order that . . . , but (I confess =
that)=20
> I sinned, in order that . . . The point would be that the Psalmist is=20
> making this direct confession of sin, because he wants God's =
punishment=20
> to make sense. (I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense objectively=20
> without the confession, but the point is, if I never admit that I've=20
> offended God, I have no basis for calling his negative actions toward =
me=20
> a just response.) Just a thought.
>=20
> Trevor Peterson
> CUA/Semitics
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>=20
>       =09
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals=20
> _______________________________________________
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